Pappy comes to Madison

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Pappy comes to Madison

Unread postby Mike » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:55 am

About 60 miles east of Atlanta (and about 30 miles from my town), there is a small town named Madison (population about 4000?). The town is named for the 4th U.S. President, James Madison. It was founded in 1809, the first year of James Madison's presidency. It has been named the #1 small town in America by Travel Holiday magazine for what that is worth.

Madison is a beautiful little town that was spared destruction by Sherman's army on its way from Atlanta to Savannah. There are many reasona offered as to why Madison escaped the fate of many other Georgia towns. The most common of these is that Sherman's roommate at West Point was from Madison. Alas, that story has been disproved. The most likely reason is that the town sent word to Sherman that it would offer no resistance, unlike many small Georgia towns which did resist, however hopelessly.

Because it was spared, Madison has many beautiful ante-bellum homes and has become quite prosperous, with many well-heeled residents. As a result, it has some excellent restaurants, two museums, a cultural center, and a very active civic community.

I go to Madison often to visit (the graveyard there is fascinating) and recently traded in my small truck for a larger truck at the Madison Ford dealership. The small truck struggled when pulling my Travel Trailer and I was uncomfortable with it.

As the salesman, the money guy, and I were scratching through the paperwork they trot out when you buy a vehicle, we were jawboning back and forth about various and sundry things. They were both retired and only worked part time at the dealership and hence were not your ordinary asshole car sales dummies.

During the conversation, it was revealed that they were both bourbon lovers, Maker's Mark being there chosen bourbon, along with Jack Daniels. Being the generous spirit that I am, I told them that there were better bourbons out there than MM, numbering in the hundreds. I promised that next time I came to the dealership, I would bring them a sample of a great bourbon that would do a body slam on good ole Maker's Mark.

So the next time I went to Madison, I took them a sample of Pappy 20. Being men of discrimnation, they took to the Pappy and agreed they had never had any bourbon quite like it.

As I was leaving Madison that day, I noticed the truck I traded in parked just outside a restaurant that I liked in Madison. The restaurant was closed for renovation, but the door was open and some men were milling about inside. I stopped and went in and asked who owned the truck outside and was informed that the restaurant owner had just bought it. I told him I was the former owner and that I had been pleased with the truck except for its towing capabilities. We then started talking about his new restaurant and I told him I had eaten there before and loved their Filet Mignon stuffed with blue cheese. He said that would remain on the new menu and asked if I had any menu suggestions.

Well, I said, I will leave the menu to you, but I would suggest that you carry a top of the line bourbon for any bourbon loving customers such as myself. He wrote down a couple of my suggestions, most notably Pappy Van Winkle 20 Year Old.

Now fast forward a month or so and it is yesterday and the anniversary of my marriage to the best person I have ever known (and who is quite attractive too). We had talked of going to a nearby Cajun restaurant that we both enjoy, but I suggested that we go to Madison and see if the new restaurant, called O'Hara's, was open yet. My wife had also liked the previous incarnation of this restaurant so it was agreed that we would go there.

When we arrived, I glanced at the bar and lo.........there stood a bottle of Pappy 20 as proud as a peacock! I started to do my little 'Popeye' dance, but a glance from my wife said, 'Don't embarrass me again!'. So I don't do the 'Popeye'.

We are seated and when the waiter comes over I orderd some Pappy. I see the young woman bartender pouring the Pappy and walk over to ask how it is selling. I notice that the bottle has only about one fifth of its contents remaining. She says it is doing well and tells me that there are two other people in the restaurant drinking it at this very moment.

I look around and at a nearby table is the money man from the Ford dealership with a bourbon hard by his right hand. I stroll over to say hello and he notes that he is drinking Pappy, and thanks me for letting him try a sample.

Pappy has come to Madison!

Post Script:

For dinner I had crusted West Coast Halibut on a bed of potatoes in a tomato/orange sauce............fantastic meal. My lovely wife had beef tenderloin medallions on a bed of scalloped potatoes and spinach........also fantastic.

For dessert we shared a rich dark chocolate pie with Chambord raspberry liqueur. That and the Pappy 20 did a great duet together. The Pappy 20 was $10 for a generous 2 oz pour and the total bill came to $72, ncluding the tip...........a bargain in my eyes!
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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Unread postby bourbonv » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:47 am

Great story Mike. I think Julian and Preston should make you an honorary brand ambassador to Georgia. Of course the problem is going to be when after about 9 months when the this year's bottling is all sold and they try to get more... It is a good problem for Julian to have to be able sell as fast as he can bottle it.

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Re: Pappy comes to Madison

Unread postby NeoTexan » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:24 pm

Mike wrote:During the conversation, it was revealed that they were both bourbon lovers, Maker's Mark being there chosen bourbon, along with Jack Daniels. Being the generous spirit that I am, I told them that there were better bourbons out there than MM, numbering in the hundreds. I promised that next time I came to the dealership, I would bring them a sample of a great bourbon that would do a body slam on good ole Maker's Mark.



First, Mike, your a great guy and I know you have vastly superior knowledge regarding bourbon than myself but I must speak up.

I drink Maker's Mark and enjoy it over all others that I have tasted (and I have tasted many others and have many bottles of other bourbons on my bar). I have a bottle of Pappy 20 on the shelf .... I do not like it. (Sorry Julian) I prefer the softer taste in my bourbon. There is a reason there are so many brands out there, it's called personal taste. For someone to presume that their taste is superior to another's is insulting to me. I meet people all the time to whom I talk about bourbon. I would never say that there are hundreds of bourbons that do a "body slam" on another. I expound the taste profiles of the various brands and advise them to try a few out when at local bars and find what suit their tastes. The credo should be "Drink what ya like." Educate don't berate.
Last edited by NeoTexan on Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Mike » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:07 pm

NeoTexan, you are absolutely correct!

I apologize to you and to others who prefer Maker's Mark and Jack Daniels. And I apologize to the rest of BE folks too!

What one drinks is indeed a matter of personal taste and no one should say anything other than that his or her preference is this or that, taking the time to explain why only if they want to.

It was just plain arrogant of me to be so presumptious.

Again, please accept my apology for this display of poor judgement. I will try to watch my tongue in future and I hope you won't hold this against me.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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Unread postby NeoTexan » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:24 pm

"I hope you won't hold this against me"

If only you were a beautiful woman .... old punch line .... "If I told you you had a great body, would you hold it against me".

I didn't mean to come off so mean. I have been visiting this site (and another) for some time now and understand that MM is looked upon as a lesser pour. I just get tired of people degrading one drink over another, making those of us that like it, feel as we are inferior for our choice. I am more than open to tasting notes where someone may make remarks that are less than kind. I believe we all understand that the tasting notes are a kind of editorial. One man's thoughts, a guide for others. But in the end we all have to try it ourselves and form our own judgments.

I respect you and your tasting ability and apologize for an old man's rants.

I look forward to seeing you at the BF and having a drink together.

Dale
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Unread postby bourbonv » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:12 am

Mike,
I can sympathize with what Dale is saying. I think there are a lot of people out there that drink Maker's as a regular pour and I support that. They are drinking bourbon. Unfortunately, I do consider Maker's as a bourbon that has been on a decline in quality over the past 15 years or so. Maker's Mark was at one time a super premium bourbon that had flavor as good or better than anything Stitzel-Weller ever produced. Corporate take over and price saving short cuts has reduced this quality, but it is still a very decent bourbon that I will drink over several other products if offered at a bar. I don't own a current bottling but I do make every effort to get a hold of older bottlings of Maker's.

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Unread postby Mike » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:36 am

In my defense, and I am in no way taking back or amending my apology, I remind everyone that on more than one occasion, I have admitted to being full of shit.

I take a lot of 'poetic license' in my posts and in my reviews. I am sure some people find this off-putting. But, to quote myself again, the best advice I have ever been given was, 'Be what you is'!

So what you see in my posts and reviews is me being me, for good or ill........probably both.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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Unread postby bourbonv » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:33 pm

Mike wrote:In my defense, and I am in no way taking back or amending my apology, I remind everyone that on more than one occasion, I have admitted to being full of shit.

I take a lot of 'poetic license' in my posts and in my reviews. I am sure some people find this off-putting. But, to quote myself again, the best advice I have ever been given was, 'Be what you is'!

So what you see in my posts and reviews is me being me, for good or ill........probably both.


And I would not change a thing. You post are always honest and entertaining.

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Unread postby NeoTexan » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:45 pm

bourbonv wrote:
Mike wrote:In my defense, and I am in no way taking back or amending my apology, I remind everyone that on more than one occasion, I have admitted to being full of shit.

I take a lot of 'poetic license' in my posts and in my reviews. I am sure some people find this off-putting. But, to quote myself again, the best advice I have ever been given was, 'Be what you is'!

So what you see in my posts and reviews is me being me, for good or ill........probably both.


And I would not change a thing. You post are always honest and entertaining.

Mike Veach


Amen :cheers:
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Unread postby EllenJ » Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:56 pm

Conyers Mike, Shively Mike, Dale, and the rest of y'all,

First of all, ain't it nice to have a venue where we can discuss a topic, take some honest (and constructive) criticism, and go on about our lives without causing a major rukus and having Da Law come down and kick us off the forum. Not that that has ever happened, of course.

Secondly, I agree wholeheartedly with Dale. I'd include Jim Beam white label in there, too. I'm guilty of the same prejudices, so I understand how it happens. EVERYBODY is familiar with JBWL or MM or JD. and therefore we tend to consider those brands beneath our consideration; because, after all, we're CONNOISSEURS and we don't drink what ORDINARY FOLK drink. Does that sound silly? Well, it is. But I still have to consciously deal with that thought or I'll end up taking it for granted. Am I really alone?

That's why, when we have tastings at our home, we ritually start off with JB white label, because thats's what MOST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD think is American Bourbon.

Another "afficienado" prejudice, not shared by every -- OR EVEN BY MOST -- people who enjoy bourbon, is that stronger flaver equals better bourbon. Let's face it, folks... most bourbonheads I know are not impressed by subtlety. We want MORE!!! More congeners; more age; more proof; MORE!! Y'know guys (and gals), this doesn't really speak well for our sophistication, does it? Barleycorn would understand.

It costs a lot of money to develop a brand of whiskey. It takes time, and it takes dedication. The people who do this are NOT idiots! Maker's Mark, Basil Hayden, Early Times, and other whiskeys that are, shall we say, not overly-flavored, are exactly what MANY drinkers prefer. They're NOT "brown vodka" -- drinkers of those brands don't drink vodka; they drink BOURBON, and they're damned proud of it. That said, brands such as those are also often the only brands bourbon drinkers have ever had an opportunity to try. Congratulations to Mike for showing another side of this wonderful beverage to folks who weren't previously aware of bourbon's range. And the result shows the value in what he did. After all, those folks weren't ordering Pappy because some bourbon snob told them to (can you honestly say the same?); they were drinking it because it tasted good to them.

In fact, as MikeV pointed out, they were ALREADY bourbon-drinkers. Now they're just better informed bourbon-drinkers. In fact, the truck salesman might still prefer Maker's Mark. More power to him. When people tell me, "I'm no bourbon connoisseur", I just answer, "if you've tasted two brands and you prefer one to the other and can explain why, you're a connoissuer. The rest is just a matter of degree."

And, whilst speaking of our favorite Hall o' Famer, did y'all notice what Mike SAID?!!
bourbonv wrote:Maker's Mark was at one time a super premium bourbon that had flavor as good or better than anything Stitzel-Weller ever produced.
Coming from Mike, that was the sort of complement Bill Samuels ought to print out and display at the visitor center!

And, totally aside from bourbon, Georgia Mike, that posting was (not surprisingly for you) REALLY wonderfully written. It made me laugh and it made me think (what more could you want?) and there's no way on earth the Goddess and I would ever find ourselves in Madison, Georgia, without stopping at O'Hara's. We'll have to call you to join us.
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:34 am

John,
Interesting comments. I also enjoy Mike's story telling ability. He always makes for a fun and entertaining post that has the added bonus of being well thought out, informative and thought provoking. That last part is the one that gets tricky though. I say keep it up Mike and let the chips fall where they will. I do believe that most people here will realize that you do not wish to be offensive, just thought provokive.

By the way John,
"And, whilst speaking of our favorite Hall o' Famer, did y'all notice what Mike SAID?!! bourbonv wrote:
Maker's Mark was at one time a super premium bourbon that had flavor as good or better than anything Stitzel-Weller ever produced.
Coming from Mike, that was the sort of complement Bill Samuels ought to print out and display at the visitor center! "

I have actually said this a couple times in the past week on various posts.

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Unread postby jbohan » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:07 am

Being as Mike and I are kindred spirits and fellow Georgian's, my 2 cents on the MM issue.

I always tell people that MM is a fine pour, BUT, there are others out there that are just as good, if not better, that don't cost as much.

Following the thread that others mentioned in this forum about people likiing bourbon that may not be as flavorful as other brands that afficianados prefer, I explain to people that MM is a wheated bourbon and why that is different from the standard bourbon.

Finally, as ana alternative I suggest W.L.Weller as a wheated alternative to MM. Certainly the PVW expressions, also wheated, are an option, but it doesn't support my point that there is a better value proposition to MM.

Any Weller stands up favorably in comparison to MM, and the 107 proof is exceptional.

In an effort to make full disclosure, I also let people know that I have a bias toward anything that comes out of the award winning Buffalo Trace Distillery.
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Unread postby Mike » Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:23 am

jbohan wrote:
Finally, as an alternative I suggest W.L.Weller as a wheated alternative to MM.


Speaking of Weller, I used the 12 YO 90 proof as a basting for baby back ribs (my wife would whup my ash if she knew I was putting bourbon on my ribs now). I am throwing a birthday party tomorrow for my 89 Year Old Uncle and cooked the ribbies yestiddy for the 15 guests who are coming.

I cooked the ribs using indirect heat (enough charcoal on the propane flames for flavor and a pan of apple juice under the ribs to keep them moist). I try to keep the temp below 250 F for at least 2 hours.

I started by rubbing the baby back ribs with garlic powder and seasoned salt and let them cook (slow, slow) for about 15 minutes before I begin the basting with Old Weller and apple cider.

I alternated basting with Weller and apple cider every 20 minutes or so. In the final 15 minutes I add a bit more garlic and seasoned salt and then add Italian Dressing to assist in creating a bit more carmalized flavor. Low fat Italian Dressing works best here in my experience.

Barleycorn (he wants me to call him 'Barleywine' now, but I ain't gonna do it) came up with the idea of the Weller on the ribs. Let me tell you those ribs are some good! Much as I hated to do it, I had to give some to Barleycorn........s'cuze me, 'Barleywine', or he said he would call the SPCA on me again.

So me and 'Barleywine' sot ourselves down and sipped a wee skosh of 12 YO Weller and et us a few ribs and acted most like we was kings of the world. Can you beat that, a damn dog telling me how to cook?

Now tomorrow we will see how my uncle and the other folks like them ribs. And you think I'm gone tell them they eating a dog's recipe, you crazy mon!!
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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