Jefferson Reserve?

[White Lightning]

First off not much talk of this so I'm not sure if my thoughts / post belongs here or in the bourbon straight category.

Anyway Jefferson Reserve no longer carries the 15 year age statement. I first heard of the new thought from an enthusiast in a foreign setting - mentioning that the whiskey was 12-17 years old. I just assumed he was speaking of something on the foreign market.

Since then of course I've heard yapping stateside about the removal of the age statement. Recently I was told that the new bottles are infact a blend of whiskey between the ages of 12 and 17 years to maintain consistency in taste.

Ok, so now I'm wondering... Does the above mean they admit the product was inconsistent prior to this point? Are they perhaps saying the whiskey they now have on hand in the 15 year range is not consistent with past whiskey used? Or is it all smoke screen and they just don't have enough 15 year old whisky on hand, so they add a drop of 17+ year old whiskey here and there and say it's at least 12 years old mixed with 17 year old.

I raise this point because in reality 12-17 year old whiskey is TWELVE year old whiskey. Right now it appears that the marketing component stresses that there is 17 year old whiskey present and the obvious point is to say it's no longer 15 years old but if you average it out - you can consider it 15 years old.

*Note: Keep in mind I've owned exactly ONE bottle of JR15 about 3-4 years back. I've had tastes maybe 4 times outside my own bottle both prior and after. Always was pleasant at least and no complaints (other than the price of the actual bottle I bought), but the point being I'm in no position to judge consistencies "then or now".

[mickblueeyes]

Are you sure what you are seeing is not the new Jefferson's bottling? About a year ago they M&K announced they would be adding a younger Jerffersons and an older Very Old Jefferson's in addition to the Jeffereson's Reserve. Not sure if this is what you are talking about.

[White Lightning]

Indeed that was my first inclination when the stateside comments started to mount. I can now say for certain, no it's not the younger bottling. There is no more 15 year old statement and according to the rep. I spoke with last Saturday his take confirmed the 12-17 year old whiskey chatter. I believe the new something or other "Very old" title you mentioned has replaced the "15 year old Reserve" - but maybe I'm wrong.

[mickblueeyes]

Hmmm. . .I have not heard this at all. Email sent to M&K to find out

[Mark]

A while back I made up a picture showing differences between bottles, shipping boxes and how they covered up where is said 15yo, and then a pic of what the new limited VOJR is supposed to look like. I thought for sure this would have been out by now considering they had pics of it and everything... They were supposed to make different releases of it, some being 17 years old, another 21 etc, all different ages. (The one in the second pic is of 'a' 17 yo bottle.

[White Lightning]

Thanks for the illustrations Mark - it appears that the Very Old JR bottles are out. That is what I saw & tasted this past week. Prior to that a friend in the Virgina area was complaining about the missing statement etc. when he picked up a bottle maybe 3-5 weeks ago.

The overseas fellow I first heard this from (I don't know him personally) but the way he was speaking initially left me with the impression that his bottle said something about 12-17 years of age and I assumed it was just another foreign offering that I knew NOTHING about (then). Now I'm pretty sure he was talking about the same thing, and I have no idea where he got that 12-17 year old info from. Perhaps the bottle or accompanying literature gives states it?

However... from what you said there Mark - is your thinking that these upcoming Very Old bottles are parallel to the Old JR15 which right now appears to be in hiding - while they push this (no age statement photo op... telling simpleminded sheeple like myself - it is 12-17 years of age?) Or are you of the impression that this has indeed (for the time being at least) replaced the JR 15 all together?

[Mark]

This is a guess on my part but I'd say that Jefferson's Reserve 15yo is gone and has been permanately replaced with the newer product which is in the same old bottles as before minus the 15yo age statement. Also, those bottles have wooden stoppers and not the clear glass ones anymore.

Then you have the Jefferson's as their base product...

And then maybe one a year (?) or as a very limited production run you'll have releases of varying aged Very Old Jefferson's Reserve. These will differ from the other "Very Old" in that they will have a specific age statement and be in bottles with gold writing etc on the front.

Again, this is all a guess, but I think they'll have 3 Jeffersons products out basically; One of them being limited and probably hard to find etc... That one being the 17yo style shown in the pics. I hate how the last one came out so damn crappy! I 'THINK' Bob may have a pamphlet that shows the pic better, maybe he can snap a picture of it and post it up so the bottle is clearer.


Ok, so I have a question... When you say the Very Old bottles are out and that's what you had you mean the one at the top that looks quite similar to the JR bottles that said 15yo on them right? It's not the fancy looking one with the gold writing on it that you have seen right? This is confusing since they both are labeled "very old" if you ask me! They need to distinguish them a bit better IMO.

[White Lightning]

Hmmm now that's a million dollar question. I'm going on memory and I believe you are correct the writing I believe was WHITE not gold.

Mr. Man doin' the splainin' called it Very Old and went on to tell me what happened to the 15 year statement. I would assume this was the cheaper bottle as he specifically said it was blended 12-17.

It sounds like the other bottle you are anticipating will be 17 or older - right?

[TNbourbon]

Two things:

• The older JR "15 Year Old" will have a glass stopper in the bottle. The newer "Very Old" has a wooden stopper.
• It has been my understanding that the change was made primarily because the availability of 15yo bourbon on the market -- McLain & Kyne are bottlers, not distillers -- was uncertain, or perhaps certainly unattainable. The best appoximation they could be assured of was "at least" 12yo stock.

The plain Jefferson's is just a lesser (8yo, I think) bottling.

[Mark]

Hmmm now that's a million dollar question. I'm going on memory and I believe you are correct the writing I believe was WHITE not gold.

Mr. Man doin' the splainin' called it Very Old and went on to tell me what happened to the 15 year statement. I would assume this was the cheaper bottle as he specifically said it was blended 12-17.

It sounds like the other bottle you are anticipating will be 17 or older - right?

Yeppers, the one I'm waiting on is that 17 yo that appeared in their literature many many months ago... I spoke with Trey Zoeller ALL the way back in December of 2003(!!!) about this and he finally said after a while "I most certainly will send you a picture of the product as soon as if is produced. I will also make sure that we have three bottles earmarked for you. As far as other information, it will be in the press release which is sent out prior to the launch. Until then I can not let the bourbon out of the bottle. happy holidays." .......... And that was that, never anything else. So who knows what's happening with this. I'd still like to see it but maybe Brent will get an answer since he wrote them. Mention I'm still waiting on that picture and info Brent.