Old Forester Birthday Bourbons -- Aging

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Unread postby TNbourbon » Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:21 am

Strayed wrote:...If, in the warehouses of a distillery that doesn't bottle thirteen year old whiskey, there are barrels of 1991 bourbon good enough to be Birthday Bourbon, and Chris chose to use barrels from 1994 instead, what was he planning to do with the 1991 barrels? Or the ones from 1992 or 1993? Were they inferior product? I doubt it. Are they intentionally letting it age even longer? I doubt that, too...


Actually, John, I've heard it IS exactly the latter instance -- they are intentionally letting it age. It's been related to me (in at least one case, the reporter claims to have been repeating Chris Morris' words) that Brown-Forman hopes to put out a 135-proof Birthday Bourbon this year in honor of the company's 135th birthday (it was founded in 1870 as J.T.S. Brown and Bro.). Of course, in order to do that, it has to be assured of having barrels that dump at 135 proof or more. I suspect they're hoping to find them among the 1991-1993 barrels.
At this point, this is rumor -- but it's rumor widely-enough spread that I've heard it.
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Unread postby OneCubeOnly » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:36 am

I'm surprised they don't just use a 135 month old bourbon for their anniversary...it seems like that would be much easier to obtain!?
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:41 am

Actually Chris was telling me two years ago that he was going to shoot for a 135 month old bourbon at 135 proof for the 2005 Birthday Bourbon. Owsley Brown approved the 135 month old bourbon but not the 135 proof.

John,
I think you really don't ubderstand the Birthday Bourbon concept. A distillery the size of Brown-Forman has a wide range of bourbons aging in the warehouses. You might be surprised at how many barrels of 10, 12 or even 15 year old bourbons they have in storage. Most of them end up in Old Forester. If Chris wanted to make it a 13 year old bourbon every year, he could simple as that. What they are going for is a variety of tastes, not the same taste every year. You do this by changing proof, age, location in warehouse or filtration. There is no big mystery as to why 2004 Birthday Bourbon was only 8 years old - It was that age because that was the taste they wanted for that year. Next September it is going to be 135 months old. The next year (and I don't know what it will be because I have not discussed it with Chris) it could be 4 years old if it has a taste Chris wants to spotlight. Chris has told me that he has already picked the bourbons for the Birthday Bourbons through 2010.

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Unread postby Mike » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:01 pm

bourbonv wrote:John,

By the way, Mike did a very good tasting of the 2002 version in the whiskey reviews for those who are interested.

Mike Veach


Actually, my review is of the 2004 version (distilled in 1995). I didn't change the year from your 2002 review...........this being my first review, I didn't realize that it would still show it as a 2002 release.

Also, I had not read this thread when I bought the Birthday bourbon...........I liked the bottle and was interested to see if it was better than the regular OF (which I had tried and thought was OK, but nothing really special.

For those of us who are amateurs, this thread is very interesting because it reveals all the various intracacies with which the master distiller must contend..........and then we are left to second guess him or her.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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Unread postby Mark » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:15 pm

Mike wrote:
bourbonv wrote:John,

By the way, Mike did a very good tasting of the 2002 version in the whiskey reviews for those who are interested.

Mike Veach


Actually, my review is of the 2004 version (distilled in 1995). I didn't change the year from your 2002 review...........this being my first review, I didn't realize that it would still show it as a 2002 release.

Also, I had not read this thread when I bought the Birthday bourbon...........I liked the bottle and was interested to see if it was better than the regular OF (which I had tried and thought was OK, but nothing really special.

For those of us who are amateurs, this thread is very interesting because it reveals all the various intracacies with which the master distiller must contend..........and then we are left to second guess him or her.


Mike, if the review you did is for the 2004 release and it is under the bottling list for the 2002 than may I suggest you copy and paste what you wrote under a new review for the actual 2004 bottling. Once you do it I'll delete the review from the 2002. I would do it for you but then the new review for the 04' wouldn't show up as being done under your username.
Last edited by Mark on Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:58 pm

It is still a good review. I am glad you took time to do it.
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Unread postby bunghole » Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:24 pm

I do wish I had another bottle of this to review.

Mike - I agree with you on the choclate (dark), and found it mainly in the finish.

:arrow: ima :smilebox:
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Unread postby Mike » Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:40 pm

Bunghole, if you like I will send you a bottle..............I assume I can legally do that??
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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Unread postby bunghole » Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:50 pm

Mike wrote:Bunghole, if you like I will send you a bottle..............I assume I can legally do that??


Assume Nothing, Mike. You can send me a bottle but it's not legal, and will make you a bootlegger! :evil3:

PM Sent! :sunny:

:arrow: ima :smilebox:
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Unread postby Mike » Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:58 pm

Well, there was a known counterfeiter in my family history (story is he kept his plates in his wooden leg), so I doubt that I would be the first bootlegger! I will see to it.................but, case there be any revenoors about, NO Bunghole, I can't send you no bottle of no Birthday bourbon!
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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Unread postby bunghole » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:04 pm

Mike wrote:Well, there was a known counterfeiter in my family history (story is he kept his plates in his wooden leg), so I doubt that I would be the first bootlegger! I will see to it.................but, case there be any revenoors about, NO Bunghole, I can't send you no bottle of no Birthday bourbon!


I understand completely, Mike. No way would anyone on this forum ever break the law. It's just not right.

:arrow: ima :notworthy:
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Unread postby mickblueeyes » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:21 pm

Okay, I have the original 89 release, the Spring 90 and the Fall 95. Which ones am I missing? And does anyone know where they can be had? [sorry to threadjack!]
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:28 pm

The only one I can see that you are missing is the spring 90. The problem is that the first year it was a 13 yo product. The next year they did two versions that were also 13 yo products. The last version, released last September, was only 8 yo and some people were upset because they thought they were getting an inferior product because it was not aged as long. They are falling for the Scotch-snobbery arguement that "older is always better" which is bull. Taste is what counts and that is what Brown-Forman is going for with Birthday Bourbon. A variety of tastes, but always an excellent taste.

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Unread postby Mark » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:40 pm

bourbonv wrote: A variety of tastes, but always an excellent taste.


That's the summary of what it is to be called Birthday Bourbon... It doesn't matter what the age is each year... It doesn't matter what the proof is... What matters is something different between each bottling whether it be location, proof, age, tastes etc.

I'll admit when I first heard they were lowering the age I was a bit upset because with the age being lowered that much I would expect the price to drop a bit as well a bit. But since it's limited and I just get a bottle to drink (and the quality has been quite good with each release) I can spree for this once a year bottling if it stays where it is at.
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Unread postby mickblueeyes » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:57 pm

I will take one point of contention with you on Scotch snobbery Mark. [Sorry, I have to, as I am the director of the East TN chapter of the Scotch Malt Whisky Society :twisted: ] I think that we all know older doesn't equal better, but it isn't just a Scotch problem to think so; it is a consumer problem. This is the case that is made for adding spirit caramel to Scotch, Cognac, Rum, Brandy and any other host of spirits--consumers equate color with age and age with taste. Bourbon is lucky in that respect becuase at these lower lattitudes, there is a great deal of color that can be imparted from a first fill cask. Contrarily, a first fill cask in Scotland may require twice as long to develop such color.

I know that a lot of the guys on here are not Scotch fans, but we must remember that "We are in this for the species boys and girls" [Starship Troopers :D] Undereducated consumers perpetuate the advertising and consumption of inferior spirits, not just inferior bourbon. Just as "Pass the JD" is like nails on a chalkboard to Bourbon fans, so is "Pass the Macallan 25 or Glenmorangie 18 or Glenlivet Archive" to Scotch fans. True fans of Scotch know that age doesn't equate to quality. It just happens that Scotch has an unfortunate connection to affluence where money, not just age, equals taste.

In the liquor business, I deal with this in every area. We constantly have customers walk in and ask for Dommy P. At $149 a bottle, you can pick up Pommery Cuvee Louise 1989 vintage for the same price, yet people go with name. This is the trouble that we all face as connoisseurs--of any product. There are going to be non-connoisseurs and pseudo-connoisseurs everywhere. We are the minority. As such, I would dissuade us from categorically dismissing those that enjoy other spirits.

Anyhow, I just felt like writing this. I hope it doesn't come off as anything other than what it is--fun discussion. That is all it is meant to be.

So, now who wants to help me find some Spring 90 :) LOL!
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