Old Grand Dad 114

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Old Grand Dad 114

Unread postby bourbonv » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:22 pm

I have been enjoying some of this bourbon all week. It has a nice complexity that I don't often find in Beam products that I really like. It has a rich citrus flavor with some sweet spices and a hint of fine tobacco that makes it the perfect bourbon on a wet cool Kentucky night. The perfect bourbon for sipping while at the computer or with some cheese and crackers in front of the television watching a game. When the weather gets colder and maybe a little snowy, I will switch to something with a little more caramel such as Weller Centennial or Old Fitzgerald 1849.
Mike Veach
"Our people live almost exclusively on whiskey" - E H Taylor, Jr. 25 April 1873
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Unread postby EllenJ » Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:28 am

That's a really great way to look at whiskey appreciation, Mike.

Probably all of us have noticed that just which whiskey is our current favorite seems to change from time to time.
But, for most of us, the answer is pretty vague.
You've shown us here how to focus on a particular sub-flavor (I suppose sometimes it could be a combination of sub-flavors) that seems particularly appropriate at certain times, depending on the weather, or perhaps what we're eating, or how we happen to feel about what our favorite team did in tonight's game (the Eagles lost tonight :cry: -- I don't even THINK about the Bengals).

That's a great way to select a particular brand of whiskey for the occasion, rather than simply saying, "I like Four Roses Single Barrel, so that's the only whiskey I'll drink".

Maybe that could be the basis for another thread: What sub-component (i.e., caramel, vanilla, citrus, earthiness, barrel (oak tannin), sweetness, alcohol burn, dancing angels, whatever) makes a particular whiskey the right choice for a particular mood?
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:07 am

MMMMM, Four Roses Single Barrel!
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Unread postby gillmang » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:51 am

I think Mike is saying that one's got all the right sub-components. For me they revolve around a fruit-like quality. It seems to have a good roundness and approachability and seems appropriate for many occasions. It does vary of course and when not on top of its game, I find it has a quality like fresh wood I find off-putting. But on balance it's a very good product. It reminds me in some ways of Highland Park 12 year old, not in its taste but in the way it combines the best qualities of the style of whiskey it represents.

I like all the qualities John mentioned, it is the way they are combined that is the thing. :) A good example of a near-perfect whiskey for me is Old Weller 107 proof. This was very recent stock because the word antique (as occasionally in past decades) has been taken off the label, John had explained why to me (Antique is being used for the line that includes W.L. Weller 19, Stagg, etc.).

Whether they changed anything when they took off that name or not, this whiskey was near the perfect dram for me. If I had a case I doubt I'd buy any other kind for quite a while. Unfortunately, I bought an older bottle recently, this still marked with Antique, and it wasn't nearly as good being more woody and overbearing in general.

A second choice for such a balanced bourbon is the current OF 100. A third one, in this case a rye, is WT's.

I have a feeling all these products are getting better. And the reason, I think, is they are being tasted at the distillery with a view to how they drink neat. And this comes from the greater interest in bourbon we are seeing lately as part of a general interest in quality drinks around the world, as discussed on the other thread. In the past, my sense is, bourbons were tasted more to ensure they were not off in some way (musty, burned tasting, fiery). If they were not off and met the organoleptic or whatever it is criteria for that drink the batch was bottled. Today, the tasters do that plus also ensure the drink tastes very good on its own. In the past there have been great drams to be sure but I think it was in a sense accidental, that or the fact that as John has also put it, these bottles of 20 or 30 years ago or more have been sitting in one place and the elements in them have gotten to know each other well.


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Unread postby EllenJ » Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:21 pm

So which particular set of conditions (food, weather, day of week, whatever) is it that is just right for Old Weller? And why do you choose a different pour for Tuesday, or with a different meal, or at a club with a different band? THAT's what I got from Mike's opening message that I think would be fun to discuss. Most of us enjoy different whiskeys at different times, although we don't usually take the time to actually discuss WHY this is so. In fact, I'd suggest that, as a form of self-feedback, if one finds a particular whiskey to be his/her one-size-fits-all favorite under every condition, one could probably benefit from adding a little more variety to their range of conditions. :lol:

That's not aimed at you personally, of course. I think what Mike points out is that our experience (and therefore our preference) changes with the circumstances.

Simple thought.
Everyone already knows that.
Or do we?

Your response, which I think reflects how many of us have felt, reinforces the old, limiting idea that "such-and-such is the BEST bourbon. Period." The actual brand will probably differ amongst us, but there is this feeling that there MUST be a BEST. The facts are completely different -- which your response also illustrates. Schizophrenic as it may seem, most of us feel that three or four (or more) are all "the best" (by which, oddly enough, we usually mean "the best under all circumstances" -- which is another way of saying "average"). In all the discussions I've had and all the correspondence, I don't believe I've ever found anyone (including Moi, of course) who ever thought about discussing what Mike brought up. I've been thinking about it a lot since then, though, and I'll probably add my .175 € worth after I've seen what others (especially new others -- come on folks, this forum isn't designed to be a spectator sport) have come up with.

As for Mike's "MMMMM, Four Roses Single Barrel!" comment, I'm pretty sure he was paraphrasing television cartoon character Homer Simpson there. At least, I hope so, since I sure laughed out loud when I read it. And that characterization would fit nicely the attitude we were discussing.

And yes, I DO know that it applies as much to me as to anyone else. Actually, I think it applied to Mike, too, until he became the first of us to put his finger on it and write about it.
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Unread postby gillmang » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:03 pm

Well, very good questions, John.

What I like about both bourbons and the rye I mentioned is they retain a taste of new distillation in a good way. I call this a roses taste. Some might say strawberry or like that. If a whiskey has lost that, I have less interest in it.

Second, I like the way the char taste wraps around that flowery taste, each enhances the other.

I must say I don't look for different drams for different purposes. If I found a perfect whiskey and I've come close, I would stick to that. The only reason that Weller lasted as long as it did and I still have some OF 100 is because I am not sure I'll get any more (that will taste as good), so for that reason I drink other stuff.

That's really the kind of taste I like in whiskey but I enjoy other whiskeys too occasionally, as a change. I admire some of Heaven Hill's products and BT's too, Beam's less so. Elmer T. Lee would be another typical set of tastes I like, sweetish, rich, not woody but matured. True, not much new make taste there, but I like Elmer T. Lee.

If I don't like a whiskey neat it goes into a Manhattan or Sour. Of course I still like to taste a broad range, partly to learn the range, the different tastes.

The kind of tastes I don't like, or when they are dominant, are: woody/tannic; musty (some bourbon is still let out that is musty or is over-cycled and that's a shame); green/eucalyptus; shellac/varnish; or anise-like. I do like a fresh spearmint or red hots/cinammon-like taste. Bulleit, which has the latter quality, is a superb bourbon in my view.

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Unread postby bourbonv » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:45 am

John,
Homer seemed more appropriate than Ralph...

For years I have been asked the question "What is your favorite bourbon?" and i have given the same answer - I don't have a favorite bourbon. Bourbon is much too diverse in its flavor range to limit yourself to a single brand. For me it all depends upon the situation I am in as to what I really want to drink. Like I said, with the weather turning cold this week and with a little snow in the air, I will turn to Weller Centennial. It was cold and snowy when I first tasted the whiskey that went into this brand and every since I have prefered it on a cold day. Old Grand Dad has been very tastey over the last week with it being wet and cool. If it is hot outside Dickel and water is always nice for me. It really does depend upon the situation as to what I wanted to drink.
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