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MikeK's recent post about the Very Special Old Fitzgerald reminded me about the origin of the glassware for the bottles in the Bourbon Heritage Collection. This collection was put together without a lot of support from U.D. North America. There was actually more support from the people in England than the people in North America for creating this collection. As a result, the bottles to produce the collection were all bottles from other products, with the exception of the Dickel bottle. It was designed just for the collection because it was also to be the bottle to be sold at the distillery in the Country Store.

The bottles used were as follows:
I W Harper 15yo - Weller Antique Bottle

Weller 10 yo - Bell's Scotch Bottle

Old Charter 13yo - Fleischman's Gin Bottle

Very Special Old Fitzgerald 12yo - Canadian Whixskey Bottle - I forget which brand but I want to say Canadian OFC, but I don't think that is right. Maybe it was Golden Wedding. Gary, can you help me out here? Does Gibson's Canadian sound right?

Since the brands were sold, I know Buffalo Trace has changed the Old Charter bottle. The Bell's Scotch bottle has been so popular that many other brands have also started using the design.

This is not the first time that bottles have been re-used in different products. For example, the Blanton's bottle was first used as a Kentucky Tavern holiday bottle. Companies will often look for existing bottle molds in order to save money when bottling new products. The expense of paying for a new mold for a product that could flop is a gamble most companies are not willing to take.

Mike Veach

Mike,

Which BHC were you talking about? The one from the 70's or the ones from the 90's? The ones from the 70's look mostly the same except the George Dickel. Sorry about the lousy picture quality.

Howie, the Weller though in the 70's iteration seems 7 years old, later it was Centenial.

Have you ever (despite such differences) compared the 70's group to the later one, any conclusions?

Regards

Gary

Howie,
Actually your first collection there was not a "Heritage Collection" per say, but simply a collection of premium bourbons bottled by the newly formed U D Schenley in the late 1980's before they acquired Glenmore and changed the name of their Company to U d North America. If you look at the bottles, they are not 4/5 Quarts, which they would have been in the 1970's.

Mike Veach

Bourbobv hit it when he said, "Companies will often look for existing bottle molds in order to save money when bottling new products. The expense of paying for a new mold for a product that could flop is a gamble most companies are not willing to take."

Custom molds run at a minimum about $16,000 but usually much higher, more like $50,000-$60,000 and up. The number is to a large degree driven by the number of "gobs" on the glass making machine. Each gob requires a set of molds. "Single gob" machines, found mostly in small glass factories in Europe, are at the low end of the cost. In the US most glass makers are geared for high production and have multiple gobs. A "gob" BTW is the gob of molten glass oozed out into the mold. It is a fascinating process to watch, seeing those little red glowing plugs of glass scooting around tracks over your head.

The molds are just the beginning, or rather the middle. You usually have to pay someone like me to design the bottle (and the decoration). After the molds are made you have to contend with minimum runs, which can be very high in US factories. For a new product or one with no expectation of huge numbers, the minimum run may represent many years supply of glass. And glass deteriorates with age. Most don't like to use glass much over three years.

Also to be considered is glass quality, color and QC. "Decanter sort", for example, excludes many bottles with surface defects that would otherwise be accepted. That adds to the cost.

Glass is also very expensive to ship. It would seem then that European glass would be too expensive, but that is often offset by other factors.

You would be surprised at how few spirits products use custom glass. (Large volume major brands excluded of course.) Those that do have made a serious commitment to the success of the brand. Much of the "unique" glass we are seeing today is coming out of Europe, where there are still "stock" bottles available that are relatively unexposed to the US market and small glass makers with single or double gob machines who can make short runs of glass.

That said, it is the job of the package designer to make the decoration (labeling) special and unique to the brand, so the fact it is in a stock bottle isn't noticed. The most challenging and exciting jobs I have been associated with have always been packaging projects. One reason is your work lasts a lot longer than an ad or point-of-sale display. That is why I love this job.

Catahoula

Catahoula wrote: And glass deteriorates with age. Most don't like to use glass much over three years.

Catahoula

What do you mean by this?
Joe

Yeah Joe, I would also like to know how glass deteriorates with age?[/b]

I think what he is talking about is the molds for making the glass. The older the mold, the less the quality of the new glass being produced. The life span of a mold is about 3 years then they have to pay for new molds, which is quite expensive.

The molds do deteriorate with usage. They are being subjected to some very high temps and the interior surface gets pitted. This can be polished out to some degree, but eventually the molds must be replaced. I don't recall the volume numbers, but that varies anyway with how often they are used verses how long they are used at one time. Short runs use up the mold life faster.

In my earlier post I was not talking about the molds, rather I was referring to the finished glass. The glass "blooms" with age. You have probably seen this in antique glass, where it takes on an iridescent color. It is subtle and not consistent but gets worse with age. Such glass is not suitable for use.

Catahoula

So what you are saying is that it a cosmetic problem, not structural problem with the glass after three years.

It is a cosmetic problem, but I do not know if it is a structural problem.

Catahoula

Also, I am not sure I would attach too much importance to three years. That happens to be a number I have heard thrown around in meetings and should be viewed as an approximate.

Catahoula

I just checked with a glass supplier we have worked with and am told it is only a cosmetic issue.

Catahoula