Spring Stagg marketing compared to Birthday bourbon

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Spring Stagg marketing compared to Birthday bourbon

Unread postby bourbonv » Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:52 pm

Linn's notes on the Stagg are very good. One point that I thought was interesting was the lack of variation. This Stagg is extremely similar to last falls. This means that if you have last fall's, it is no big deal if you miss getting this spring bottle. As the bottlings progress there will be less demand as everybody realises that they don't have to stock up and hoard 12 bottles because they are afraid they won't be able to get that bourbon.

Birthday bourbon is being done differently with a new flavor profile each time it is released. This creates a brand new demand everytime it is released and if you do really like the flavor profile, you had better stock up while you can.

This makes me wonder if they did the Stagg a little differently each year if it would make for a more interesting product. make the age different each year. Maybe use more than one mash bill when picking the barrels. Leave it with its signature unfiltered barrel proof, but change the profile each year to creat renewed interest each time it is released.

Any other opinions?

Mike Veach
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Unread postby bunghole » Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:37 pm

Great question, Professor Veach!

If you will recall there was quite a bit of negative backlash when an eight year old Old Forester Birthday Bourbon was released in 2004 vs. the 13 year olds of two years past. I really like the year to year variations that Chris Morris has chosen to build into the label. I also think that it is easier to choose a new flavor profile for each release.

I also love the consistancy that the profoundly professional warehouse manager/tasting crew/quality control staff has built around all of Buffalo Trace's brands/labels. There is very little barrel-to-barrel variation between any of their single barrel expressions. So too is the very small batch of barrels selected for George T. Stagg. Excellent consistancy from release to release. Plus this year's spring release shows that Buffalo Trace isn't holding anything back. They must already know that they have enough barrels coming to maturity to support the established Stagg flavor profile. That's a very good thing as far as ima concerned. I wouldn't change a thing. There is more than enough demand to sell out each release very quickly.

When we take a larger view of the American whiskey industry it's easy to see that Sazerac/Bufflao Trace is squarely in the lead. Jim Beam is resting on their "small batch" laurals. Marker's Mark is doing fine with it's single brand and can sell all that they can make at an excellent profit. Heaven Hill has finally nailed down their Evan Williams Single Barrel with a delightful flavor profile, plus their new straight wheat whiskey will soon arrive. Both Barton and Wild Turkey are doing much the same as Brown-Forman as far as marketing is concerned.

As we both know, Chris Morris is doing a lot of experimentation on a small scale at Brown-Forman. Only time will tell. I wish him the very best.

"Lead; follow, or get out of the way" - (sorry I don't know who said this first)

:arrow: ima :idea:
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Unread postby TNbourbon » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:45 pm

Interesting, Mike -- but I'm not sure I agree with the basic premise: that the 2004 and Spring 2005 Staggs are essentially the same. I find a prominent rye-y mintiness -- the famed 'peppermint stick' -- in the Spring bottling I've never experienced in any previous Stagg (I've never sampled my late-obtained, sole 2002 bottle). I have both 'vintages' open -- perhaps another side-by-side is in order soon.
And, having discussed just this matter with BT's Ken Weber, the intent is that there is no exact taste profile for Stagg so that it might vary somewhat from issue to issue. That's why there is no age and proof printed directly on the label -- they don't know what they've got till they find it. With the ER17 and Sazerac, on the other hand, they are matching a taste profile, with age and proof noted on the label (that's why there were so damned few of the '04 ER17s -- only a handful of barrels matched the profile). So, I think BT's intent with Stagg is the same as B-F's with OFBB -- a 'round robin', so to speak, of tastes, albeit within fixed parameters.
As for the OFBB, I'll admit to being one of the early naysayers when last year's came out at only 9 years. But I have an example of that open, too, and my last couple of tastes of it have enhanced my opinion of it greatly. It is very good.
Last edited by TNbourbon on Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Chris » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:01 pm

Hmm.. It's nice to have differences from year to year, but honestly, being given a relase of Stagg every year with a 'flavor profile' like it is now is a very good thing in my book... I sort of would prefer if every different flavor had it's own distinct label/name instead of just going by 'vintages'... but i guess the legal requirements of getting a new label out and approved everywhere in all the states they want to sell in every time they have a new flavor would make that prohibitive...
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Unread postby OneCubeOnly » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:48 pm

I'm selfishly torn about the whole vary-the-profile idea for Stagg. It's so hard to get and so rare in these parts that it's at least comforting to know if I DO score some that it's a winner. Also, if the different vintages have similar profiles it might make for less hoarding.

On the other hand, it would be neat to try some other ages or mashbills at barrel proof (like BT's wheat/Weller recipe!?)
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:04 pm

I agree there are some differences, but as Linn says in his tasting notes, I find that there is a basic Stagg profile with each bottling being a slight variation on the same theme. This is good, but I find myself getting less excited about a new release because I know if I miss it, I always have my older bottles and the next release will also be the same.

Birthday Bourbon is different in that each bottling is different and if I miss a bottle style, I feel I missed it for good. I am more likely to get into the store to get it soon after the release so as not to miss it. I like that each expression is unique and Brown-Forman is not falling into the trap that age alone makes bourbon great. Anyone who has had some old samples of Old Fitzgerald Bonded will qickly realise the error of that line of thought.

It would be nice if they could name each expression a completly different name, but that is expensive. Just knowing the product can change is fine with me.

Buffalo Trace is certainly one of the leaders, but I would not count out Brown-Forman with the Birthday Bourbon and Woodford Reserve. A little birdy told me there will soon be some exciting new whiskey coming from Woodford. Heaven Hill has their new wheat whiskey, Wild Turkey has only one real brand with different variations on the theme, but those variations are masterpieces. Four Rose has been marred down with uncertainty for so long they have not had a chance to play the premium whiskey game in the U S. Barton has made an effort with 1792 and I think it has paid off. (By the way did you notice that it was Brown-Forman and Barton that was paired up to get Maker's Mark. ) Maker's has been the most dissapointing to me as I feel their quality has slipped and their emphasis has been on quantity instead. Beam has their small batch bourbons, but have also had Jacob's Well and Distiller's Masterpiece in the water and who knows what they might be working on for the future.

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Unread postby Chris » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:09 pm

Mike,
I definitely get real excited when a new product is released... I also get a little depressed when i pop open a bottle of birtday bourbon and really like it, knowing that i can't get any more ever. If i know i can't get any more i make that bottle last and save it for only special occasions... with stagg, seeing how BT seems to make it a regular thing now of releasing it as they can, i feel more and more comfortable to have some whenever i want since there is a good chance of getting more bourbon very similar to it in the future... in both cases i try to buy whatever i can because they are both great products...

I am really excited lately by all of this news of new releases, and your message gets me even more excited... The HH wheat whiskey has me really itching to taste some, i have no idea what to expect from it, and i guess there is nothing to compare it to...

I was really pleased to get some four roses single barrel in the US again last year in kentucky, and it was a bonus that they made it a different bottle style and proof from the duty free release... Hopefully sometime soon it will get distribution outside of kentucky... I wonder if they plan to do the same with their black label and super premium products in the US?

I guess any way we look at it, this is really a good time to be alive if you're into bourbon... I go back and forth thinking about all the older whiskies that I have tasted that have been phenomenal (very very old fitzgerald, i have a great bottle of I.W. harper BIB, along with plenty of great samples of stuff that I have had the privledge to taste that you have brought to various functions in the past)... but it seems that now we have the benefit of greater quality control/labs and can be assured a much more consistent product, and we seem to lately be getting some great distillers that are really listening to what people want and producing different things... Hopefully it pays off for them so we can expect more great things in the future...

-Chris
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It is a Golden Age

Unread postby Stoopsie » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:03 am

I have felt for a long time now that this must be the golden age of American Whiskey. The number of outstanding bourbons and ryes that have appeared on the shelves since I became a serious enthusiast in 1994 is incredible. I do not want to list them now because I might forget a few and hurt someone’s feelings. I feel that the number of marvelous whiskeys appearing in a short 10-year span has never happened before in the history of American whiskey production. Now I know that there have been great bourbons in the past and even a few lower priced whiskeys from the 50’s and 60’s compare favorably with today’s premiums. If you would like some there seems to be more and more available on Internet auction sites. But, the explosion during the past decade and the exciting brands of the near future, such as the Sazerac 6yo rye, Bernheim Wheat Whiskey, the not so secret new offerings from Brown-Forman/Woodford Reserve and lets not forget the 100’s of experimental barrels from Buffalo Trace. The taste that I had from the French Oak barrel that Mark brown supplied was terrific. I will buy a case of that when it becomes available.

This is the golden age I have no doubt.
Howie

Some people see the glass as half full, some see half empty, but I prefer to drink straight from the bottle.
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Unread postby bunghole » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:16 pm

Ima in complete agreement with you, Howie. :cup: From Blanton's in 1984 forward more and more new bottlings/expressions have come to market. The old Oscar Pepper distillery has been restored and is operating as Woodford Reserve. George Washington's historic Douge Run distillery is about to be rebuilt. New American whiskies continue to come out. This is an exciting time to be a bourbon enthusiast. Besides which it is the time in which we are alive. It helps to be happy about ones place in history, rather than saying "Damn I wished I had been born right after the War of Northern Agression and died on Prohibition Day."

:arrow: ima :cabbage:
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:05 am

I was reading a letter in a letter press book from 1876 at the Filson. Taylor is sending his friend the barrel of 2 year old OFC that he had ordered. The price was discounted for his friend to $1.70 per gallon from $2.30 per gallon, for a total cost of $80.50. This was a time you could indeed have a single barrel bourbon and I do mean the whole barrel! The late 19th and early 20th century had to be the golden age of bourbon. There were hundreds of distilleries in operation, not just in Kentucky, but in Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Maryland, North Carolina, Illinois, Indiana, Missouri... the list could included most states of the Union.

There was a huge variety of distillers and a huge variety of products and tastes. You could get bourbon as we know it. If you perfered something a little older or with a little less caramel you could get it from used barrels instead of new. You had several different styles of rye and corn whiskey as well as Tennessee whiskey to choose from. You could buy it by the bottle or right from the barrel. You could even buy the barrel. If you wanted it filtered that was fine, but most products were sold unfiltered at barrel proof. This proof was much lower then than now since most straight whiskey was put into the barrel at 100 proof.

You could get whiskey by mail order if you lived someplace too far away from a wholesale company to get it any other way. You could buy it at any age from right off the still to over 20 years old. There were rectifiers that designed products for just about any taste as they married straight whiskey from different distillers to get the taste they wanted. If you simply wanted it cheap, then there were companies that rectified a product for you as well. Some would make it for you in less than 24 hours and deliver to your door.

The modern age has some good products but we are losing variety as the production becomes more or less the same with similar mash bills and high distillation and barrel proofs. Government regulation still impedes the growth of new distilleries and even the ability for the consumer to demand changes through the market. There is no way the government would allow a consumer to take home a barrel of whiskey today.

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