Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby Squire » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:24 pm

I have been disappointed enough with NDPs to have simply stopped buying any of them.
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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby Bourbon Joe » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:07 am

Squire wrote:I have been disappointed enough with NDPs to have simply stopped buying any of them.

NDP ?
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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby 393foureyedfox » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:13 pm

Bourbon Joe wrote:
Squire wrote:I have been disappointed enough with NDPs to have simply stopped buying any of them.

NDP ?



non-distiller producer.....people who buy from a distillery and bottle it under various labels. They had nothing to do with the production or aging or storage of the whisky. They buy it in bulk or by contract. Half the stuff on the shelf anymore is this way, and often you can buy the stuff much cheaper dierctly from the actual distiller under thier own labels.
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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby fricky » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:58 am

393foureyedfox wrote:
Bourbon Joe wrote:
Squire wrote:I have been disappointed enough with NDPs to have simply stopped buying any of them.

NDP ?



non-distiller producer.....people who buy from a distillery and bottle it under various labels. They had nothing to do with the production or aging or storage of the whisky. They buy it in bulk or by contract. Half the stuff on the shelf anymore is this way, and often you can buy the stuff much cheaper dierctly from the actual distiller under thier own labels.

I assume that you wouldn't buy bourbon from the van Winkle distillery. I guess that I am in the minority. If I like a bourbon, I don't care who distilled it. Over the years, I have had outstanding bourbon from "non-distiller producers" such as Willett, Mclain & Kyne. and of course van Winkle when it was from Stitzel Weller.
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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby Birdo » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:26 am

Bourbon Joe wrote:
Squire wrote:I have been disappointed enough with NDPs to have simply stopped buying any of them.

NDP ?

Heaven Hill, Barton Brands and Beam all sell their juice to bottlers that sell it under their own brands. But the Biggest is probably MGP of Lawrenceburg Indiana. MGP sell all their mass quantities of whiskey to bottlers for private label. A lot of the rye whiskey out there is made by them including Bulleit Rye, Dickel rye, and Rebel Yell rye. MGP makes good booze, if you can get it for the right price. These 3 are good for the price and acknowledge the source.

The big problem with NDP whiskey is bottlers jack up the price and make up a BS story about the product. Templeton Rye just lost a massive law suit due to truth in advertising. Buyer beware, NDP's are a good way to buy a $25 bottle of bourbon for $50+ bucks. Small artisan distillers that all of a sudden have age bourbon for sell are probably sourcing it from MGP and lying about making the stuff them selves. Liars.
Last edited by Birdo on Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby Squire » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:15 am

fricky wrote: . . . . If I like a bourbon, I don't care who distilled it. . . . .


That's a good rule, I'm of much the same mind myself, exercising caution as an informed consumer of course. For instance, I like Heaven Hill Bourbons and will cheerfully pay $12.00 a bottle for their 6 year old 90 proof version. I will not pay 3-4 times more for the exact same whisky just because it comes in a fancy bottle with an even fancier fake history about being a family recipe passed down for generations.

What the marketers have taught us though is a great lie works best if there's a grain of truth behind it. The Heaven Hill mashbill is a generations old family recipe, it just happens to be the Beam family.
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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby Squire » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:29 am

Birdo wrote: . . . . But the Biggest is probably MGP of Lawrenceburg Indiana. MGP sell all their mass quantities of whiskey to bottlers for private label. A lot of the rye whiskey out there is made by them including Bulleit Rye, Dickel rye, and Rebel Yell rye. MGP makes good booze, if you can get it for the right price. These 3 are good for the price and acknowledge the source. . . . .

. . . . Buyer beware. Small artisan distillers that all of a sudden have age bourbon for sell are probably sourcing it from MGP and lying about making the stuff them selves. Liars.


Good points, it's not the lie that offends me, it's the idea they think I might believe it. Interesting thing about MGP, their Rye is being used by so many producers that consumers at large are beginning to think that's what Rye is supposed to taste like.
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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby mhatzung » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:50 am

Good points, it's not the lie that offends me, it's the idea they think I might believe it. Interesting thing about MGP, their Rye is being used by so many producers that consumers at large are beginning to think that's what Rye is supposed to taste like.


A little off topic, but Squire, what rye do you feel represents what rye should taste like? I've had several and there are large differences.
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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby Squire » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:50 pm

Oh, for Heaven's sake, do veer off topic, that's the nature of conversation. It's not like we're being graded here. A good question that, what brand today represents the true taste of Rye Whisky. I donno. I've had some Ryes made in Pennsylvania and Maryland in the 1950s and 60s but does that make them the real stuff? For a long time now I've enjoyed the Ryes from Beam, Wild Turkey and Heaven Hill but that only says I like those particular House versions without singling any one of them out as being somehow more authentic or historically accurate, or even better than the others in any quantifiable sense. They are for the most part modern Post-Prohibition interpretations of a style of whisky from the past.

Was the old stuff better? Well, it was certainly more varied with the major producers working to a consistent profile but that consistency was achieved mainly by blending Rye Whisky of different ages and sometimes different distilleries. Good stuff and the standard of it's day and small producers like Leopold Bros and Finger Lakes may yet make something that gives me that eureka moment. But I can't think of anything on the shelves today that I would say is the one to which others should aspire to copy.

For me the main thing is we have producers who have done their homework and are actively working to recreate historical Rye Whisky styles and I'm cheering them on while patiently waiting for the whisky to mature.






a
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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby 393foureyedfox » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:17 pm

Squire wrote:Oh, for Heaven's sake, do veer off topic, that's the nature of conversation. It's not like we're being graded here.
a



Wise man, that Squire.....


too bad the moderators at 'that other place' dont think the same way
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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby Mike » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:36 pm

Well, I do not know of a bourbon that I cannot live with. Sure, I like some better than others, and, I have been fortunate enough that unless it goes out of sight, I can buy whatever bourbon I want.

But, I think that my posts will show that I never said (if I did, I should not have) that the difference betwixt the most expensive bourbons and the cheap ones was THAT great. I have learned, by trying many bourbons, what my palate prefers, and I have also learned how to approximate that preference by 'vatting' bourbons, often from among those which are less expensive.

I do not know of a 'great' reputation bourbon that I did not like. Perhaps because I am a bourbon whore.
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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby Squire » Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:08 am

I cannot say that I've truly liked every one I've tried, which is pretty much all of them before the recent proliferation of mystery bottled NDPs, but I also don't recall ever pouring one out.
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Re: Name a great reputation bourbon that you didn't like

Unread postby Bourbon Joe » Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:05 pm

I recently had a Eagle Rare 101 Frankfort that was flawed. It went over the railing. But the Old Prentice Lawrenceburg which was served next was sublime.
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