Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

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Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby Mike » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:06 pm

Rye whiskey must contain at least 51% rye grain. It is usually (in my experience) not appreciated by drinkers new to American whiskey. It has some strong flavors that drinkers of softer and more widely sold bourbons are not prepared to appreciate. I say this knowing there are those exceptions, people who like more intense flavors.

As it happens, I like rye whiskies and keep a number on hand. I have ryes from craft distillers (very grainy taste, but excellent), and from Canadian distillers (extraordinarily subtle and refined), and from several American distillers (Wild Turkey, Heaven Hill, and Jim Beam), as well as several ryes of significant age (Van Winkle, High West, and Heaven Hill - Rittenhouse 21 YO).

Recently mention has been made, both favorably and unfavorably, of Old Overholt Rye. This is an 80 proof rye from Beam, which also produces Knob Creek Rye at 100 proof.

It made its way into my mind to throw Rittenhouse, Knob Creek, and Old Overholt into a face off. I can claim no merits for my palate beyond that of having tasted a large number of whiskies, so I am delivering to you nothing beyond a reasonably informed opinion whose formation is described. I try to never venture (as some others do) into opinion territory without supporting reasons for those opinions.

An 80 proofer against two 100 proofers? Well, yes!

Contrary to opinions I have myself held in the past, 80 proofers are not just 'watered down whiskey'. Their attraction is a satisfying softness and subtlety often overlooked by those whose palates are best suited by the appeal of higher proof 'shock'. I say with absolute confidence that those who exclude 80 proof whiskies from their shelves miss something in the way of the subtlety that whiskey can offer. It is, of course, their prerogative to do so.

I find Old Overholt holds its own against the two 100 proof whiskies noted above, primarily because the rye grain itself provides its own intense flavors. The barrel flavors of the Rittenhouse and the Knob Creek are accompanied by the distraction of the alcohol.

Still, of these three, I think the Knob Creek best achieves the balance I prefer between the barrel vanilla, oak, spice, and subtlety among the three.
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby Squire » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:26 pm

Good report Mike and I agree with you about 80 proof, as do most of the major spirit producers around the World.

What are your thoughts about the standard 80 proof Beam Rye and the 92 proof versions, (ri)1 and Russells?
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby RandyG » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:42 pm

I like experimenting with ryes, using them to add a little spice to my bourbon on occasion. I do enjoy a good rye neat from time to time though. I have both a Handy BTAC and a Willett open right now and look forward to trying the Russel"s Reserve Single Barrel.

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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby Wasatch » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:56 pm

I've had a few High West ryes, I think the 21 Yr. Old is very very nice, next would be the Double Rye.
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby Agalloch » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:12 pm

This thread came around at a good time for me. I'm fairly new to American whisky drinking, I've tried a handful off bourbons and began noticing that I prefer the ones with high rye content. After a bit of looking around picked up a bottle of Old Overholt because the price was right. Now that I think of it I've never done a decent tasting of any whisky below 86 proof so the 80 proof does come across quite subtly but I really enjoy it. The two stores that I've found in my area that has a pretty decent selection seem to jack up the prices on the bottles that aren't prevalent in the area...such as Wild Turkey Rye. I'd love to give Rittenhouse, Wild Turkey Rye and Knob Creek a try soon, hopefully I luck out and Knob Creek will go on sale up in New Hampshire where selection is limited but prices are much better than down here in MA.
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby ebo » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:15 pm

I'm a big fan of the KC Rye.
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby corpse_welder » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:45 am

I'm not the most well-traveled in Ryes, but I do enjoy the Dickel Rye. You make some great points about the 80 proofers and rye being pretty over-looked
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby 393foureyedfox » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:23 pm

honestly, Ive gotten to where I dont buy most ryes anymore because a great deal of them are all made at the same place, and then bought by the other companies who label them as their own. Its kind of hard to make a unique product that way. Dickel rye has enough difference though to be interesting, as I believe they use their charcoal filtering on it like they do their whiskey. It takes on its own character as a result.
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby corpse_welder » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:48 am

393foureyedfox wrote:honestly, Ive gotten to where I dont buy most ryes anymore because a great deal of them are all made at the same place, and then bought by the other companies who label them as their own. Its kind of hard to make a unique product that way. Dickel rye has enough difference though to be interesting, as I believe they use their charcoal filtering on it like they do their whiskey. It takes on its own character as a result.


I believe you and I are the biggest Dickel advocates both here and SB, so I knew you would agree on the Dickel Rye
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby Bourbon Joe » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:42 am

You can add my name to the enjoyment of Dickel list. Both Tennesee Whiskey and Rye.
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby 393foureyedfox » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:04 pm

I am as yet undecided on the DIckel rye though, corpse-welder. I have only had it once at a bar. It was definately interesting, which is more than I usually say for high-rye's. It kept me, and still does, looking for a word to describe it. "minty" is not the right word, but its as best as I can come up with.

Dickel guys seem to be a minority. I love my 9 year, but some nights, it just doesnt do it for me.
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby corpse_welder » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:20 am

Bourbon Joe wrote:You can add my name to the enjoyment of Dickel list. Both Tennesee Whiskey and Rye.
Joe


My great-grandfather drank it with dinner every night until his death at 85 years old. Cheers!

393foureyedfox wrote:I am as yet undecided on the DIckel rye though, corpse-welder. I have only had it once at a bar. It was definately interesting, which is more than I usually say for high-rye's. It kept me, and still does, looking for a word to describe it. "minty" is not the right word, but its as best as I can come up with.

Dickel guys seem to be a minority. I love my 9 year, but some nights, it just doesnt do it for me.


I had it last night and I had 3 thoughts keep coming up; bubblegum, spearmint, and pickles. I've heard several people mention bubblegum when speaking of Ryes, so I know I'm not completely insane.
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby 393foureyedfox » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:32 pm

I've heard 'picklejuice' used for LDI ryes, but havent gotten that myself. maybe Ill put some spearmint in a picklejar and try it.....
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby corpse_welder » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:15 am

I got it more on the nose and couldn't place it until this last glass. I have 30 or so open bottles so I bounce around a lot, but I will definitely remember that every time I drink it
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Re: Let us speak of cabbages, kings, and rye whiskey

Unread postby Agalloch » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:17 pm

I went to the store and to my surprise found they had Rittenhouse rye in. From what I had read about it I could tell it was definitely a whisky for me. I dig this rye, has dark notes and a spice much like a favorite of mine: Old Forester. Its a whisky that isn't trying to make any friends but deserves all the attention that it gets.
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