And now, for the finish!

[Mike]

I admit to having a strong bias against any bourbon or whiskey that dies at mid-palate. Two that come to mind most prominently are Maker's Mark and Bernheim..........both wheat whiskies.

I think it was Gary Gillman who commented in a post recently that 'wheaters' are often a bit short in the finish. I have found that to be true of the above 'wheaters' and also in another 'wheater', William LaRue Weller.

Not all 'wheaters' are afflicted with this shortcoming (I assert that a short finish is a serious shortcoming in a bourbon). None of the Van Winkle's seem to suffer from this.

I again assert that a first rate bourbon MUST have at least have a moderate finish. A short finish is 'half a loaf'.

I solict opinions from the BE brotherhood on how important the finish is to them and if it is important, why is this so?

[bunghole]

Mike,

In my opinion the finish is every bit as important as the nose and contains a lot of the flavors from the palate. A great finish doesn't make the bourbon taste any better although some nuances of flavor do sometimes arrive late and only reveal themselves during the finish. A great finish always makes drinking the bourbon a much more rewarding experience.

To the casual drinker that always shoots down straight shots a short fast finish is mericful.

As far as the William LaRue Weller goes, I think you've missed the boat on this expression, Mike, and are looking for it to produce an extra-aged rye recipe (i.e. the 12 year old Wild Turkey that you love so much) type of finish that it just can't deliver. I think that if you would blind taste test against 15 year Old Rip Van Winkle or 15 year old Pappy you'll find that the Weller holds up very well.

I have never been a big fan of wheaters but I have learned to appreciate some of them for what they are. Some such as Maker's Mark or any of today's Old Fitzgeralds I never buy or drink as I just don't like them. One of the main reasons is just as you opined - a short finish, and I'll throw "nasty" into the fray.

There is never any reason to drink anything that punishes the drinker for having drank it.

[bourbonv]

I agree that the finish is important. A bad finish can ruin an otherwise good bourbon. For me, that is the story with Elijah Craig bourbons. They both have a good nose, a decent taste, but a sour finish that simply ruins the experience for me.

I will disagree with the statement that wheated bourbons do not finish as well as rye bourbons. Some of the best finishes ever for me, has been wheated bourbon. I think that a comparison should be done with like aged wheat and rye bourbons and I think you will find that it is a mixed result on the finish. I think the secret to a great finish is a lower barrel proof. The higher the barrel proof, the more watery the taste and the quicker the finish.

Mike Veach

[Mike]

Mike,

As far as the William LaRue Weller goes, I think you've missed the boat on this expression, Mike, and are looking for it to produce an extra-aged rye recipe (i.e. the 12 year old Wild Turkey that you love so much) type of finish that it just can't deliver. I think that if you would blind taste test against 15 year Old Rip Van Winkle or 15 year old Pappy you'll find that the Weller holds up very well.

Well Bunghole, ole buddy, I don't think I missed the boat on the Weller. I have gone back to it several times and although I didn't go the blind tasting route (too lazy), I tried the 10 YO ORVW, the 12 YO Lot B, the 15 YO ORVW, and the 20 YO Pappy (ain't got no 15 YO Pappy and can't seem to find it hereabouts). None of them had the same poor finish as WLW and all are superior in my opinion.

Why the Weller disappears at the back of the mouth, I don't know. Maybe my old taster just isn't attuned to the Weller.

As to the Weller, if you look at my review and posts on that bourbon, you will see that I never said it was a 'bad' bourbon and in fact, called it good, saying it had many fine qualities. But, given that I find the finish too short, I still feel the WLW at $70 is an overpriced bourbon.

I have now vatted it with Wild Turkey Russel's Reserve 90 proof and Bernheim wheat whiskey (WLW 40%, WTRR 40%, and Bernheim 20%) and created what I consider to be an excellent bourbon.........better than any of the three used to make the vatting.

[Bourbon Joe]

Interesting vatting Mike. It's a 4 grain but still predominitely a wheater since the WT is not a high rye bourbon and the Bernheim is all wheat. If I owned a bottle of Bernheim I'd give it a try. I like wheaters.
Joe

[Joeluka]

How many onces do you pour at a time Mike?? The % are helpful for us but when you try them out at home how many ounces or ml's is your test sample? I go for about 2 ounces first with a one ounce pour of one of my favorite bourbons on the side, to help me keep my taste buds in line.
If it feels like the sample might need more of my time I go to a 4 ounce pour the next night. If its a winner to me, I'll revisit at a later date or I'll use it in a Manhattan.

Do you have any other favorite vattings that we should try???

[Mike]

Since I was planning on doing a three way comparison with the WLW, and Bernheim vatted with each of these; JD Single Barrel, Dickel, and Russell's Reserve (90 Proof), I made each of the samples at 4 ounces in measuring cups. I then pour about an ounce of each into my bourbon glasses for the comparison.

Sometimes you have a hard time deciding which is best, but in this case the sample with the RR was way better than the others to my palate, so I didn't finish them. I decided to go ahead and make a 750 ml bottle of the WLW, RR, and the Bernheim at 40%, 40%, and 20%. Delicioso!!

I have two other vattings on hand that I enjoy, and one I almost never bother (Woodford Reserve and Elijah Craig 18 YO at 50/50). There have been a few others that I tried and because they didn't make the grade I have forgotten what they were.

The first of the other 'excellent' ones is a 50/50 mixture of WT Kentucky Spirit and Eagle Rare (the older 101 proof). I like either of these two in and for themselves, but think I like the vatting even better.

The other 'excellent' vatting that I have is thanks to JoeBourbon. It is George T Stagg, Maker's Mark, and Evan Williams 1793, each at 33%. This particular vatting won in one of Joe's 'tastings'.

I have a second bottle of Stagg because I love that stuff at lot...........but I have to imbibe it in very small doses at that proof because of a hiatal hernia.

As you can easily see, I ain't no Gary Gillman in the vatting department and usually just go by the seat of my pants..........but it is fun!