William Larue Weller goes vatting

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William Larue Weller goes vatting

Unread postby Mike » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:37 pm

As some of you will recall, my opinion of the William Larue Weller is, while it is an excellent bourbon, at $70, it is overpriced. I found it to be a shade too short on the finish for my taste.

So, I put together a vatted whiskey consisting of the following: 25% WLW; 25% Maker's Mark; 25% Dickel 12 (I like ole George, he sings a nice little song.....but can he harmonize?); and 25% Wild Turkey Russell's Reserve 90 proof. That makes the final product 98 proof.

Nice nose with nuts, leather, brunt brown sugar, corn, nutmeg, dates, the warming rye, and oak dryness and char (ole George can harmonize and strange to say, I think he takes the lead.........I had hopes for him!).

The taste has the richness of the WLW and a bit of the MM sweetness. The RR throws in some rye bite, and the Dickel seems to add his oak dryness and a touch of char. I am pleased.

Being of a curious turn of mind, I throwed this in the ring with one of my personal moderately priced favorites, Jefferson's Reserve........ to let 'em duke it out (nothing blind or scienfitic here, mind you!)

I can modestly report (you didn't think it would come out otherwise, did you?) that my vatting with the WLW as the anchor bourbon (with ole George bobbing and weaving the whole while) more than held its own. IMHO, the vatted whiskey has a bit more backbone and character (and don't forget, I am a big fan of JR), due, I suppose, to the dry oakiness and char of the Dickel and the rye of the WT RR.

This is a very, very, good vatted bourbon.

P.S. I am glad to be off the wagon (see my post 'I was wundering'). I spent the night in the kennel last night courtesy of my dog, who 'brougnt me up' on charges of cruelty and was able to make the case to the SPCA that he was being mistreated because I was denying him his bourbon 'ration'.

He made the case (who knows where he gets his information) that just like English Seamen get their grog (which they no longer get, by the way), he has a legal 'expectation' of a bourbon ration. I pointed out the the English Seamen don't have that 'right' anymore. But I was tried by a jury of Barleycorn's peers, so what should I expect!

Needless to say, there is a bit of tension twixt me and my dog at the moment. It is the old dilemma of when has a friend pushed you too far!
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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Unread postby gillmang » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:31 am

That's a good vatting, Mike. Another way to approach it is just use two bourbons. That Larue Weller is light on the finish because it is wheat-recipe. If you added any good rye-recipe bourbon, maybe a younger one to dampen the wooded notes of the Weller, you should get a good balance. Things like Bulleit might work well or Beam Black or Booker's or any WT. You can vary the percentages, 50/50 to start and see from there.

In 1885, Jo. Fleischman in his blending manual used a basic 3 whiskey blend, either all bourbons, all-ryes, or in one case (and we can see the logic), two bourbons and one rye. Say, half Larue Weller, half Maker's (to reduce the age but keep the wheat-profile), and then the rest rye-recipe or any rye whiskey. (Say 45%-45%-10%, which are the Fleischman proportions for the 2 bourbon, one rye blend, in those proportions the Weller, Maker's and, say Booker's would be really good but any rye-type whiskey would work). If you used regular Weller's (the 7 year old), Maker's Mark and ORVW 13 year old rye, the extra-age in the rye would leaven the youth in the other two in a pleasing blend. As Fleischman himself stated, the formulas are almost endless.

Gary
Last edited by gillmang on Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby TNbourbon » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:33 am

Generally, I got through my Larue Weller bottle -- and I'm a big wheater fan; this was a disappointment -- by vatting it 1:1:1 with Fall 2005 Stagg and water.
It winds up at around 88 proof, still a healthy proof, with much palatable flavor.
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Unread postby gillmang » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:47 pm

I could see that, Tim. First, you are keeping broadly within the same age bracket. Second, the Fall 2005 Stagg is well-flavoured albeit not a high rye recipe. So the effect is to enrichen the other while gaining points from its mildness. I've had situations where you can get these vattings or blends very soft, flavorsome and and rich. It is fun too to experiment with combining barrels of the same whiskey, say Elmer T. Lee or Jack Silver Select. Glad you liked the Silver Select, I agree it is still JD but way above the others in my view. It seems to have a fruity quality the others lack.

Gary
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Unread postby Mike » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:05 pm

I have done more experimentation with vatting the Weller.

Out of curiosity and because I have some Jack Daniel's Single Barrel on hand I vatted the WLW with JDSB at 50/50 (about 106 proof)........not very good.

I tried WLW and Dickel 12 also at 50/50 (same 106 proof) .......better but still no cigar.

They both seemed to be missing something........seemed like to me it was a touch of sweetness.

So I tried JD/WLW/Bernheim at 40/40/20 (about 103 proof). It was better than the 50/50 but had a finish that for was surprisingly too peppery.

I then tried Dickel/WLW/Bernheim at 40/40/20. It was better than with the JD, but still disappointing.

Last I tried WTRR90/WLW/Bernheim at the same 40/40/20..........Eureka!! It has the richness of the WLW, the sweetness of the Bernheim, and the spice of the WT...........excellent says I.

I liked this one so much, I made up a 750 ml batch.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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Unread postby EllenJ » Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:25 pm

Mike, have you tried Corner Creek lately?
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Re: William Larue Weller goes vatting

Unread postby EllenJ » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:30 am

Mike wrote:As some of you will recall, my opinion of the William Larue Weller is, while it is an excellent bourbon, at $70, it is overpriced. I found it to be a shade too short on the finish for my taste.

Hi Mike,

Realistically, William Larue Weller isn't overpriced, because enough of us enthusiasts will pay that much for it to sell out all they've got, with no-one wishing there were any more. That's the way things SHOULD be. Too bad it doesn't work for some of the other things we enthusiasts would like to see.

As for the taste, it depends on what you're comparing it with. Since Willy LaRoo is considerably older than both BT's Old Weller and Stitzel's 7-year-old, we can expect a difference, although we'd expect the WLW to have have even more finish than Antique. Which it does, but only at the 121.9 proof it's bottled at.

I did a side-by-each with WLW and Stitzel/UD Weller Antique. Since you really can't compare a "modified" bourbon with one straight out of the bottle, I reduced both to 100 proof, using Chuck Cowdery's formula (buy his book; it's worth it just for this formula -- consider the wealth of other information and just plain good writing as added value). What I found was that WLW doesn't even have the beginning of the S/W product, let alone the finish. That said, I should note that the S/W Antique has a certain "barrel-bitterness" that I find personally endearing, but many of my friends do not, and for which I would probably mark points off of in a contest. The fact that it lingers longer than WLW may be points in favor of the WLW. Personally, I find the overall flavor of WLW to be less complex than the S/W Antique, and more like Blanton's, Elmer T. Lee, or Eagle Rare than the wheated whiskeys.

I think there is a definite difference depending on who made the whiskey. Traditionally (i.e., before Buffalo Trace and Heaven Hill went into the wheated bourbon business) wheaters didn't seem to have a lot of up-front grain flavor and they benefited greatly from long years in wood. At least that appeared to be the case when Stitzel-Weller was the only wheaters we encountered. Now that others have gotten into the game, we see such whiskeys as Weller 12-year-old, which I personally see as Buffalo Trace's answer to Basil Hayden.

Bourbon that replaces rye (a very flavorful grain) with wheat (a nearly flavorless grain) as the "third ingredient" apparently gets most of its character from the way it's aged, and it requires a true master to see to it that it's aged in a way to make that happen. That's Julian Van Winkle's genius (and I mean J-3, not Pappy), and his association with Buffalo Trace is the best thing that's happened to that organization since Mark Brown turned it into the boutique distillery Beam wishes it could have been. I kind of wish they hadn't named this fairly pleasant wheated whiskey "William LaRue Weller", as it's really quite good when not compared with that brand.
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Unread postby gillmang » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:31 pm

Kudos to Mike for trying those variations and the one you hit on sounds great. Even the William Larue Weller at 20% with the other two 40% each might be very good, increasing sweetness and keeping just enough of the dryness and maturity of the WLW, but sounds like you did fine as it is.

Gary
Last edited by gillmang on Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby Mike » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:00 pm

You gave me another idea, John and Gary. I just put together another WLW vatting with approximately 16.5% WLW, 16.5% Van Winkle Rye, and 66% Bernheim. As you might have noticed that is a 1/1/4 ratio that works out to be 96 proof.

I did a side by side with the WLW/WTRR90/Bernheim (40/40/20). In my opinion they are both excellent bourbons (?). I find the nose of the vatting with the VW rye to be superior, it has a bit of the rye fruitiness that is very pleasing. And the desirable rich leather aroma is quite prominent.

As to the taste, I think I perfer the VW rye vatting a bit more (I believe I have enough WLW to make a 500 ml bottle). In my judgement, the WLW contributes a nice rich and creamy quality, the Bernheim sweetens the pot, and the rye contributes its fruit and spice.

Overall, I would say this new vatting achieves a very nice balance, a complex and interesting flavor, and, a long finish. I would liken it to a Dave Brubeck jazz piece........complex and lively with a memorable melody (think 'Take Five' a long piece with a melody you will never forget once you hear it).

Today is my anniversary and my beautiful wife and I will be going out to a marvelous Cajun Restaurant.......but I can't leave this stuff alone.

'Barleycorn'! 'Hep me up, and hide that stuff I just made up!' 'And don't you get in it either, neither!'

I just don't know can I trust that hound...........but I gotta leave that new 'sauce' alone or the wife will skin me alive for being high before she even gets home.

Courage, dear fellow...........surely you can come to your senses.

'Oh, I'm back in the saddle again! Out where a friend is a friend. Where the longhorn cattle feed on the lowly Jimson weed.........I'm back in the saddle again!'

Y'all know the old Gene Autry theme song? Sing right along, it's a simple tune!
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
Mike
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