Woodford Reserve - was it better before no. 90?

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Woodford Reserve - was it better before no. 90?

Unread postby gillmang » Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:02 pm

Some time ago Linn mentioned that the early issues of Woodford Reserve were very good and represented the ultimate version of Old Forester. Since batch 90 when pot still whiskey started to be added from Versailles, I used to think by definition the new WR was "better". Now I am not so sure. I snagged in Buffalo, NY recently one of those extra-thick bottles of WR with a batch number in the 40's. I bought it to taste test against a current WR, batch 164. Well, I felt the all-Louisville whiskey was better: floral, rich, well-integrated. (In fact I prefer it even to Birthday Bourbon which is perhaps too rich, too "much"). The current WR is heavier in taste with a slightly feisty ("congeneric?") note. While I've enjoyed some of the post-90 batches (especially no. 125) I am starting to wonder if the all- Louisville honey barrel whiskey was a better way to go. Possibly the pot still element needs more age. Obviously all this is prime whiskey but side by side I felt the early, pre-batch 90 bottling was superior.
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Unread postby BostonEnthusiast » Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:17 am

I'm with you on this one -- I was turned on to WR several years ago and found it to be my favorite in comparative tastings, but the most recent two bottles I've had tend to finish last in comparisons. I get an astringent "paint" (turpentine?) nose out of the newer bottles that I don't recall being there before.

Interesting that you mention OFBB -- I had never had it until a glass of the Spring 90 at Jack's Firehouse in Philly. The Birthday Bourbon had that fruit (cherry?) nose and flavor that I used to note in WR.

Threads on That Other Site seem to suggest a lot of variation in Woodford Reserve -- pot-stilled or not.
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Unread postby bunghole » Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:23 am

YES!

I absolutely fell in love with batch 40! :beer:

:40oz: :drink: :cheers: :partyman:

That was as close to candy as any bourbon has ever come, and I'm sad it's gone. I bought as much as I could afford and drank it down just as quickly.

I always thought that Brown-Forman should have left well enough alone, and left Woodford Reserve right where it was at batch 40.

I don't really like the ultra-metallic super copper taste that is now a part of the flavor profile.

I do like the pot stilled bourbon as a single barrel expression, but not as part of Woodford Reserve. I guess they expect us to forget, and that new Woodford drinkers will have no reference to the pre-#69 batches.

I don't agree with Brown-Forman's marketing strategy of rising prices = higher quality. I guess that some folks think that 'this bourbon costs more so it must be better'. It has worked for sc**ch and v**ka, as for some reason some folks will pay more for the illusion of better quality and therefore the illusion of better taste. It sure worked for Maker's Mark.

I like to keep a bottle Woodford Reserve around, but I don't drink it very often anymore now that it is $30 a bottle. Old Forester used to be a mainstay in my bourbo-bunker, but now I feel it is way over priced and I haven't bought a bottle in over two years other than Birthday Bourbon.

Sorry Brown-Forman, but what used to be profit in your pockets is now going to other distillers. Buffalo Trace is a prime example although I am angry with them for cutting Virginia off from the Ancient Ancient Age 10 year old.

Although Knob Creek isn't cheap at $27 a bottle I buy it ten-to-one over Woodford Reserve.

Indeed, Evan Williams Single Barrel is a far better bourbon, and a far better buy than either Knob Creek or Woodford Reserve, and seven to ten dollars a bottle less expensive. Whenever it's on sale, I buy this a lot.

Yes I miss good old batch #40. It is a great sadness.

Linn
Last edited by bunghole on Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby OneCubeOnly » Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:09 pm

I've had a frustrating saga with Woodford Reserve. I've had three bottles with three very different products. The first I thought was superb. I didn't even think to make note of the bottling/batch number at the time. My second bottle was drinkable, but mediocre. It got quite of bit of shelf time and I finally just forced myself to finish it. I finally gave WR one more try (this was Batch 99) and it even made ginger-ale taste bad. I'm assuming this was one of BF's first experiments with adding the potstill, as it had some kind of lavender/lilac/copper thing going on which was a huge turn-off for me.

Considering the price and frustration factor, it'll really take some serious coaxing to get me to gamble on WR again.
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Unread postby bourbonv » Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:52 pm

Woodford Reserve being bottled now is definitely different than the product first bottled. Is it better or woest? I can't say because sometimes my opinion is one way or the other and I think it has more to do with the batch I am drinking at the time. I don't think they will get a consitant profile for several years to come. It just takes a long time to figure out a new distillery, let alone a new (Old) way to distill. It is a learning process and an expensive learning process to boot. I will give Brown-Forman credit for staying with it so far.

As far as the price is concerned, I always felt Old Forester was worth a lot more than they were charging and Brown-Forman seems to agree. I hate paying more since it used to be a great bargin bourbon but unfortunately under pricing can kill a brand (and almost did Old Forester) as much as over pricing. If the brand gets that "Cheap bottom shelf" image it can be the kiss of death for the brand unless the distillery sells a lot of it (How many people would buy an expensive version of Early Times?) If Old Forester had not been the brand that started Brown-Forman with sentimental ties to the Brown family, it would have dissappeared off the shelfs in the 1990's. Brown-Forman has spent a lot of money to bring it back from the brink of extinction and now they are trying to collect.

It will be interesting to see how the new products from the pot stills sell in September, but even more interesting to see if people want more of those products next year and the year after.

Mike Veach
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Unread postby gillmang » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:40 am

Good thoughts, Mike, but what are those new products?

Gary
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Unread postby gillmang » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:42 am

Another thought but I think I'm in the wrong thread: maybe the Michter's Straight Rye which is 4-5 years old was made by Buffalo Trace to "test market" its now 6 year old soon to be released own-brand rye? What do you think fellas?

Gary
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Unread postby bunghole » Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:07 pm

gillmang wrote:Another thought but I think I'm in the wrong thread: maybe the Michter's Straight Rye which is 4-5 years old was made by Buffalo Trace to "test market" its now 6 year old soon to be released own-brand rye? What do you think fellas?

Gary


Gary! You just threadjacked your own damn thread! :rolleyes:

D'OH! :banghead:

If it says Sazerac on the label it had better be good! :sunny:

:arrow: imarocks! :band: :bananarock:
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[Caution--thread hijack in progress!]

Unread postby OneCubeOnly » Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:14 pm

That's funny, because I had to restrain myself from doing a hijack myself! So I guess I'll do it now:

Linn's comment about the AAA10yo supply drying up in VA made me wonder what his new daily pour will be!?
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Unread postby gillmang » Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:27 pm

Linn, now that's funny :).

gary
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Unread postby bourbonv » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:33 am

Gary,
Brown-Forman is keeping the list of products quiet for now. If I was a betting man, I would bet on the Four Grain Bourbon as one of the four or so they are going to release. The others are all going to be experimental products done at Woodford in the pot stills and Chris says they are going to have a suggested retail price of $79.95. The will only be a very limited amount sold since these were all limited production - less than a thousand cases.

Mike Veach
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Re: [Caution--thread hijack in progress!]

Unread postby bunghole » Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:17 am

OneCubeOnly wrote:That's funny, because I had to restrain myself from doing a hijack myself! So I guess I'll do it now:

Linn's comment about the AAA10yo supply drying up in VA made me wonder what his new daily pour will be!?


Treadjack Continued => Gary, I'm at a loss. I won't be going back to Old Forester - that's for sure. Evan Williams standard 'black label' is out of the question as is Jim Beam's standard 'white label'.

I think whenever Virginia Gentleman's 'Fox' is on sale along with Evan William's Single barrel I'll just have to buy by the case. That's a bit spendy, but as I see it - I have no alternative.

If I'm going to be forced to spend more money, I'm going to buy what I like, and not just what I can afford!

It's bad enough when your own duly elected goverment jacks up the prices, but when one of your favoite distillerys cuts you off - it's time to succeed from the Union, and declare WAR!

Oh! We did that already? And we lost?! The HELL you say!

Let's Do It Again!

Pants Away Baby!

Linn
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Unread postby TNbourbon » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:40 am

The (sort of) good news, Linn, is that Buffalo Trace says AAA 10yo is not slated for extinction -- they are just hijacking its current allocation of bourbon for other products until they can solve their production shortages, and will keep it in general distribution in KY only for now. Virtually every one of their bourbons is on allocation to distributors. Nice problem to have, being able to sell every bit of product you make.
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Unread postby OneCubeOnly » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:16 pm

Linn--I've been purusing the VA ABC 'menu' myself...just trying to decide which bourbon would make a suitable replacement. I don't drink often enough that I need a tremendous bargain, but I want a good, sturdy, on-shelf bourbon good enough that I can drink solo or mix with ginger ale without feeling guilty. AAA10yo has always filled that niche.

I've been thinking Beam Black might be my new bar-stocker if/when the AAA10yo dries out.
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Unread postby gillmang » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:59 pm

What bout Wild Turkey? That's a good solid bourbon priced under its value, I think.

Gary
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