Is Pappy worth the trouble?

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Is Pappy worth the trouble?

Unread postby corpse_welder » Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:45 am

I've never tried any of the line, but I'm a huge Weller fan. I decided I was going to dive in head first this year and get myself a bottle of any of them; I'm an Enthusiast afterall, I would appreciate whatever I could get. I've been laughed at, scoffed at, eyes rolled and ignored so far in my search and I at this point I feel like well is it worth it? You guys are surely more experienced than me and I certainly admit my humble nature as far as bourbon is concerned. I feel like bourbon drinking isn't about the fanciest and most expensive, and I think the hunt for Pappy has driven me away from enjoying what I already have here at home and what I can go out and freely buy
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Re: Is Pappy worth the trouble?

Unread postby peterh » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:25 am

The hunt is absolutely not worth it, unless you're the kind of person who enjoys this kind of a thing. If you've been buying pappy, yearly, from the same place, you most probably still get your bottle or 2 around this time of year. No hunt and no hassle. If you're trying to get 'on the bandwagon' now, one question to ask is "Why?". Why now, after Pappy has developed this cult following, do you now need Pappy? A little like saying that you don't like the stock market back in '09 and '10 but really like it now...
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Re: Is Pappy worth the trouble?

Unread postby corpse_welder » Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:19 pm

Because I was a single malt drinker first and only have become a bourbon drinker the past year and half. So in my naivety, I thought "well I would absolutely love to try a bit of that!" Whereas last year I was still descending into the world of bourbon. I'll just have to sit back and hope one day it becomes a little more available
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Re: Is Pappy worth the trouble?

Unread postby Birdo » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:37 am

No it's not worth the money or the effort. I tell you this having never tried PVW. Fancy bottles and limited availability, and colorful yarns about the Ole Pappy Van Winkle is an orchestrated marketing effort to get you to part with as much money as possible for a bottle of booze.

I readily admit to not having a sophisticated pallete, but I do know what I like. The Van Winkle line is wheat bourbon, and I prefer rye based bourbon. As such I haven't been able to find anything better than Four Roses Single Barrel or Wild Turkey Rare Breed. It can be argued that the two I mentioned are over-priced because they are not twice as good as WT101 which I claim is a good base-line for high quality bourbon. They are better, but are they worth a 100% premium, probably not.

However, this is an indulgence, and if you want to try some, by all means do, just remember at the end of the day, it's just booze.

If you want to get a high-end bottle, the Heaven Hill hospitality center in Bardstown KY always has bourbon for sale between $75-$500/750ml.
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Re: Is Pappy worth the trouble?

Unread postby RandyG » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:18 am

I don't go beyond asking a few local liquor stores to see if they could get me a bottle, and then it's only the 15YO old that I'm interested in. I did not get any 15YO last year and yes, I was bummed. I did find some others to fill the void though. Even if I didn't, I would still have Rare Breed, Kentucky Spirit, Rock Hill Farms, Blantons, etc.. It's a good time to be a bourbon drinker.

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Re: Is Pappy worth the trouble?

Unread postby Mike » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:58 pm

I have not bought, or even seen on the shelves at liquor stores, any Van Winkle bourbons in at least a couple of years. I still have a smidge of Pappy 20 YO, and half full or more bottles of the 15 YO Pappy, the Lot B 12 YO, and the Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye. All these bourbons (and the rye) are exceptional to my palate and, in my opinion, they taste a bit different from any other bourbons.......... the Wellers are all good, but lack something as compared to the Van Winkles.

Still, whether the Van Winkle bourbons are worth the asking price is a matter for you to decide. Bear in mind that the difference between bourbons that cost say, $30, and the Van Winkle bourbons is as much a matter of taste as it is of quality. As I write, I am comparing Pappy 15 YO, for which I think I paid about $80 a few years ago, and Noah's Mill, for which I paid under $50, also a few years ago.

I have always found favor with Noah's Mill. The one I have is a 15 YO (all the bourbon in this bottle is at least 15 years old) at 114.30 proof. I understand that new bottles of Noah's Mill have NSA (No Age Statement) but contain bourbons between 4 years and 20 years of age (and both wheat and rye grain recipe bourbons are used in the admixture) purchased from several sources.

The taste of these two, adjusted to about the same proof, is remarkably similar (to my palate). Both are dry, as opposed to sweet, and have more than a mite of tannins, which provokes some bitterness in the taste. The Pappy 15 is just slightly sweeter, and slightly better.

The Noah's, although I have not tried the newer releases of this bourbon, might be a good one to try before spending a bundle on Pappy 15, because it is not so expensive and has many qualities similar to those of Pappy 15.

I am a big fan of Van Winkle bourbons, but at the prices I have seen thrown about lately, when I finish what I have, I will buy no more.
Last edited by Mike on Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is Pappy worth the trouble?

Unread postby Mike » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:33 pm

My guess is that most people who pay exorbitant prices for Van Winkle bourbons will end up saying it was a mistake, a big mistake. As I have done before, I am trying some Pappy 20 over agin some Woodford Reserve Double Oaked (sells in the $50 range). The Pappy is slightly better, but not by much.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas
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Re: Is Pappy worth the trouble?

Unread postby 393foureyedfox » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:40 pm

I have never had it. I agree with the post above, that in the end, it IS just a bottle of booze.

For what one bottle would cost me, I would instead gleefully clear the shelf of Dickel 9/103 and never look back. Damn that stuff is good!
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Re: Is Pappy worth the trouble?

Unread postby corpse_welder » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:58 pm

Mike wrote:I am a big fan of Van Winkle bourbons, but at the prices I have seen thrown about lately, when I finish what I have, I will buy no more.


This pretty much sums it up. Good to hear, it felt a little bit like the holy grail was out there and I was missing out. I would gladly pay retail price if it was available, but maybe someday? Imagine that, walking into a liquor store and seeing STOCK of Pappy. Until then I will be choosing to enjoy what I love instead of Chasing Amy
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Re: Is Pappy worth the trouble?

Unread postby Squire » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:27 pm

For a lot of years I did just that, walked into a store where the entire Van Winkle range sat collecting dust because discriminating customers preferred rye recipe whiskys. Pappy is a holy grail only in the eyes of a largely clueless media.

If you're curious to try it by all means do so, plenty of bars and restaurants will be glad to accommodate you. Just don't expect the Earth to move or anything, it's basically Makers Mark with some age on it.
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Re: Is Pappy worth the trouble?

Unread postby 393foureyedfox » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:44 am

I'd take squire's advice before I took anyone else's. period.
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Re: Is Pappy worth the trouble?

Unread postby Duewester » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:43 pm

I had the opportunity to try five different PVW's with bourbonv during Easter and I wasn't impressed by any but the 12yo. Mike actually suggested I flush the 23 when I made a sour face during the tasting. We finished off his PVW Rye (bourbonv said it was barely a rye at 51% rye) signed by Julian (bought at an auction). I was very impressed by it. However, I like the Rye Bourbons and think Four Roses Single Barrel OBSQ is the best bourbon I have ever tasted.
Where I live, I can't find any Weller, RVW or PVW products at any price so I have to wait for a trip home to get some and try them. As has been mentioned by others, I think a lot has to do with marketing and 'wanna be' experts pushing the PVW. It's not bad, it's just not that great. If you want it, get it, drink it, enjoy it.
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