Can cheap make moderate better?

[Mike]

At one time I did not care for Barton bourbons. I don't remember why. But I never gave up on them, and now I am a fan. There is a distinct Barton house flavor that is hard to describe.

First off it is a rounded kinda thick sweetness that lays down a nice path for the bourbon to follow as it makes its way toward the back. Secondly, they are not shy with the rye, as in their 6 year old, 90 proof Very Old Barton. Which, by the way, has some wonderfully rich barrel flavors too. Last time I purchased a bottle, which has been a while, it was about $9.

So how to utilize the barrel flavors and cut into the hot rye spice? Well, anytime I want to soften a whiskey, I reach for the Evan Williams Single Barrel. At 86.6 proof and a lower rye recipe, I find it on the soft side. Its cost is about $25. So, I take 30 ml of the Very Old Barton and 20 ml of the Evan Williams Single Barrel.

So now I have an 88 proof whiskey whose effective cost is about $15 a bottle and which is just plain excellent. It retained some of the Barton rich sweetness and gave over some of the rye heat, gained some of the EWSB softness and a smidge of the tannins to hold things together ........ but you by God know you are adrinking bourbon.

[EllenJ]

Mike, I don't think you can get VOB90 anymore in a 750ml bottle. You can get 86-proof, and that costs about $9.50 these days, and you can get 100-proof for just over $13 and that has all those Barton flavors that you now enjoy (but would prefer to be less rye-heavy). Linda describes it as "nicely dark-chocolate on the nose and at the first sip, but then turning nasty as you swallow". But you gave me a great idea for what to do with whiskey that you don't really enjoy all that much and that's too weak to do well in a cocktail.

Here's my take on your vatting:

The VOB100 has all the characteristics (good and bad) that you mentioned for the 90-proof. Even with the higher proof, though, in my vatting I would use the same proportion of it, as I would be mixing it with...

... 80-proof Early Times (the Kentucky-Style Whiskey; not the 354 bourbon). You know, the one your son-in-law gave you for Father's Day last year? There's really nothing WRONG with the flavor, other than there isn't much OF it, and if you actually went out and BOUGHT a bottle it would also cost you about $13.00

So now you mix 6 parts of VOB (the 30ml you mentioned) with 4 parts of ET (20ml in your case), and you end up with a quite respectable 92 proof whiskey which is all chocolatey and Barton-ish on the way in and Old-Forester-with-less-rye on the way down. Not bad at all, and the cost would be just over $13.00 a bottle (750ml). Plus, you avoid the HH house flavor (which I personally don't care for).

I mixed some of this up and I'm drinking it right now. Pretty d@mn good whiskey!

[gillmang]

Makes sense to me, you are taking what is arguably "over-flavoured" (or too rough in taste for some) and making it milder with the Early Times whiskey, each should "fit" the other like a jig-saw puzzle. And you can extrapolate from there.

I should add too that my understanding is the different proofs of VOB are not the same ages, this was confirmed to me by a former distiller. It doesn' t really matter from the viewpoint of coming up with a given proof (92, 90, etc.) but I mention it for what it is worth.

Barton is good bourbon but not great bourbon IMO. And I regret to say 1792 was (for me) a damp squib.

Gary

[393foureyedfox]

we still have VOB 90 in louisville.......

[EllenJ]

Gary, the Lucifer...
Thanks! I do continue to love American whiskey just the way it comes from the bottle... mostly.
But you are introducing me (and everyone else here) to the (up to now) undiscovered and somewhat "evil" world of taking control of our own whiskey concoctions. You're making (ugh!) RECTIFIERS of us, you S.O.B.! I feel so, so... EVIL

My goodness!
I might even find that I like what I can DO with different whiskies even better than what some merchant has already DONE with it.
You...
You... ENLIGHTENER, you!!!

Uh, Thank you?

[gillmang]

You are welcome. You have expressed similar sentiments before, but John, there is nothing devilish about it. Don't be beguiled by a "label" and a "name". You can do as well, or better. Why can, say, Julian blend two ryes to make the current superb VWFRR 13 years old, and you can't? Your diffidence to do so is at odds with your mastery of the American whiskey ethos. There is nothing of Lucifer in it, just the same commercial and gustatory logic producers have always used. Surely you have examples in your collection of Maryland or other blends of straight ryes, for example. It's all been done before... (link to an apposite rock song coming).

Gary

P.S. I won't mention (in any detail) cocktails, but think about them for a moment...

[gillmang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMGgx7eeQrM

From a fine Canadian band (Toronto-based), a hit from the the late 90's. The lead singer is Steven Page.

Gary

[EllenJ]

Gary,
I have a dry sense of humor. Some say it's the only thing "dry" about me.
Sardonic, one might say. Or perhaps just "full of sardines".
I hope the satirical nature of my earlier posting didn't get lost in the seriouseness of the subject.
Again, thank you for being a point-person for introducing many new (and some old) members to ideas that you and I have both been doing and advocating for many years now.

Oh, and I love BNL!

[gillmang]

No problem John, my point was really I was introducing (or re-introducing) old ideas to members old and new.

Gary

[JPBoston]

Please don't mingle real bourbon with that ET swill. EWB is just as cheap, and 10x better tasting.

[EllenJ]

I don't think this is the proper venue for whiskey snobs, J.P
There is another website where such elitist ideas might be more readily accepted. Perhaps your postings would be more appropriate there.
You obviously have no actual, direct experience with Early Times (and probably not with EWB either) or you wouldn't have made such a ridiculously absurd statement concerning which of those might be appropriate to mix with a highly-flavored bourbon such as VOB (with which I doubt you're familiar either). Until you learn to write about subjects with which you have some first-hand experience (and don't bother lying to us; we know you don't) you really ought to sit back and learn before making such a fool of yourself.

[393foureyedfox]

yeah, i wouldnt go as far as calling ET as 'swill'. whit I personally dont care for it, its a pretty popular whiskey. I dont care for it, as it is waaaaaaaaay to low of a proof, and just tastes watered down to me. I have a friend who was giving another friend a hard time over drinking ET last year, so the challenged one offered a blind tasting of 4 whiskeys/bourbons to the challenger. imagine the challengers surprise when he picked the ET as the best........but, they both like 80 proofers.

the only thing i would go so far as to call 'swill' has been Old Overholt. it was so foul, i couldnt even use it up by putting it in my bbq sauce, and i just dumped it out to get rid of it.

cheap does make moderate bourbon better. you expect that $40 bottle to be good, but you are outright delighted when you crack open that $15 bottle and are more than happy with it.

[gillmang]

Cheap can make "fine" bourbon finer, IMO. Try, say, 1 part Early Times, 1 part Overholt, 2 parts Buffalo Trace (or ETL) and 2 parts Knob Creek or the new Taylor bond (small batch or single barrel). If it's not quite right add a part or two of Rare Breed or any good quality somewhat woody bourbon over 7-8 years old.

Gary

[393foureyedfox]

or........just buy something you like to start with!


when i have something i overly dont care for, i try to use it in bbq sauce or other cooking. ive never been tempted to mix it with something i actually DO enjoy, just to make the lesser one drinkable. i can understand mingling things to get the best of both worlds of something you enjoy both of individually though....

[gillmang]

Certainly I agree that if every drink as purchased always pleased, there would be no need to mingle anything. My interest in it started as a way to use bourbon and rye I didn't want to drink (or finish) on its own. It was that plus learning about the history of blending whiskey in North America and Scotland including the parts of the Federal Standards of Identity which permit mixtures of bourbon to be called straight bourbon or ryes from different states to be blended and called a blend of straight rye whiskeys, say.

Also, you get different tastes from doing it that you can't buy. It may sound anomalous that something "lesser" can make a better overall drink but I have found this, but it's also a semantic thing too perhaps. E.g. I find some bourbon too woody and bland, not oily/congeneric enough, so the young corny bourbons or a vigorous rye 3-4 years old supplies that want so to speak. Lots of ways to look at it and lots of ways to drink bourbon.

Gary