HH differences?

[393foureyedfox]

Im a few months into learning about and experimenting with the vast world of bourbons. Can someone clue me in on the differences in all the varieties of Heaven Hill named bourbons? There is a green label, a black label, a gold label, BIB's, etc....even their website has no info on the basic HH stuff.

I was at a get-together tonight and orchestrated a blind tasting. About half of the people were inexperienced with bourbon as I am, another half experienced. Out of curiousity, I snuck a green HH 90 into the mix. It was consistently in the top 3. I wanted to toss a 6 year cheapie into the mix just to see if it could fool people if they didnt see the HH label first.

Ive had the white 100 also. What are the differences? What are your takes on them?

BTW, the 7 bourbons/whiskeys in the blind test were:
114 OGD (consistently ranked last...sadly...i tried this one just because the consistent good ratings)
Old Forester 100
Green HH 90
Elmer T Lee
Knob Creek
EWSB
Larceny

I liked Knob Creek best, OGD least

[Birdo]

"I liked Knob Creek best, OGD least" I could not agree more.

I know a guy that interned at HH, and the joke there was they make 200 different labels and one kind of bourbon. To be fair, they put their better stuff in the more expensive bottles.

When selecting one, I would go for one that has an age statement and higher proof. 80 proofers with no age statement are low cost well bourbons suitable for mixing only.

[393foureyedfox]

case in point....they have two HH BIB 100's.....a gold and a white. what is the difference?

[EllenJ]

Heaven Hill seems to get a lot of undeserved bad press, especially from published critics and "bourbon snobs". IMnotsoHO, that's an example of the kind of elitism that has no place on BourbonEnthusiast; there are other venues for that sort of attitude.

Your tasting, and what you've learned and shared about the results, goes a long way toward proving my point .
Thank you! (and yes, I prefer Knob Creek myself).

Here are a few Heaven Hill brands and descriptions. As Birdo pointed out, all of these are produced from the same distillate. The wide variety is the result of the fact that Heaven Hill has thousands of barrels to choose from. And these are aged and stored in every conceivable type of warehouse, from metal-clads, to bricks, to stone, to wood, climate-controlled and not, whatever. Heaven Hill owns or leases warehouses all over the state, many of them from otherwise no-longer-existant distilleries. With a palette like that to select from, they can make a LOT of different-tasting bourbons from the same original juice.

Heaven Hill Kentucky Straight Bourbon
4 years old (no age statement), 80 proof. The square bottle and black label could be easily confused with Jack Daniel's, but the Evan Williams label is even more blatant. Nevertheless, even though the same juice is in both of them (Heaven Hill and Evan Williams, that is, not JD), they don't taste the same.

Old Heaven Hill Very Rare Old
10 years old, 100 proof bottled-in-bond
Many consider this to be Heaven Hill's finest epiphanous bourbon.

Old Heaven Hill (gold label)
Same bourbon at 4 years old (no age statement), also 100 proof, bottled-in-bond

Heaven Hill Old Style Bourbon (white label)
Also 100 proof, bottled-in-bond, and 4 years old (no age statement).
The only difference between this and the gold label would have been the barrels that were selected to mix it from.
This was my mother's favorite bourbon.

Heaven Hill Old Style Bourbon (green label)
6 years old, 90 proof. I believe the label is designed to mimic Jack Daniel's green label, which is very popular in the Southern States, although the JD brand is 80 proof.

Heaven Hill Ultra Deluxe
Despite the "Ultra Deluxe" name, this is an 80 proof 3-year-old bourbon, making it about the bottom-shelfest offering they make.

Then of course there are several versions of Evan Williams and the Elijah Craig bourbons. And all of what I call the Legacy brands, such as Henry McKenna, Dant, Virgin, Dowling, and other Kentucky bourbons whose names would have been long forgotten were it not for Heaven Hill's dedication to keeping them alive.

All of these (and many more, when you consider all the brands contractually bottled by Heaven Hill) are made from the same juice. Heaven Hill doesn't do custom distilling, only custom bottling. But Heaven Hill has an absolute jaw-dropping "library" of barrels to select from in creating those brands. And, while the "Parker/Craig Beam fingerprint" is on nearly all of them, the bourbons that can be created from such a selection can be very VERY different from one another.

Bourbon snobs don't like Heaven Hill. The Shapira concept conflicts with their fantasy about what bourbon is, or least how they believe it once was.

Bourbon enthusiasts, on the other hand, tend to really enjoy Heaven Hill bourbon... especially when offered it blindly by someone as astute as yourself. Congratulations!

[393foureyedfox]

i was especially curious as one of the participants is a long time PR employee of a rival distiller and devoted imbiber of their products. he ranked the green HH 90 over his favorite, which was in the mix. had it not been a 'blind' tasting, im sure that wouldnt have happened.

for everything any one person wants to identify with, be it a bourbon, a hobby, etc....there are always 'snobs' of one persuasion or another. brand loyalty is blind loyalty to me

[Bob Barker]

I am just shocked that ogd 114 was consistently last? Given the list I would think its a no brainer top 3....wow

[gillmang]

Good run through John of the various HH-labeled iterations.

One thing over the years I've found in the eponymous bottlings - but in few if any other (modern) bourbons from HH - is the corn oil note. Even the 10 year old rare version, which I haven't seen hide nor hair of lately either, had it. Why this is I'm not sure, I'd guess the bourbons may be selected from the lower echelons in the warehouses. If so, they would not mature as fast (at the same ages) as the bourbon used for the non-HH-labeled brands. Personally I don't really like that taste although it has good use in mingling and blending IMHO.

These bourbons offer the advantage of being inexpensive and probably are a specific historical type.

Gary

[393foureyedfox]

I am just shocked that ogd 114 was consistently last? Given the list I would think its a no brainer top 3....wow

most people were reviled when blindly given the ogd 114. one likened it to "fermented aquarium water". with my little experience, nearly every bourbon ive tried at half the price was better. I tend to like the higher proofs too, so i expected to like it, but didnt.


tried it again last night, by itself, with nothing to compare it to. that way at least, my impression went from poor to indifferent-fair.

[393foureyedfox]

i think the green 6 year 90 proofer works best, now that ive made my way through all the HH 90-100 proofers. 95% as good as their Larceny, and half the price.

i was enjoying the HH samplings, until I came across the 120 KC and bookers....dammit. of course, theyre 5-6x the price.

[EllenJ]

... brand loyalty is blind loyalty to me

Brand loyalty as applied to whiskey probably has some similarities with the kind of brand loyalty found among beers. I'm not talking about the local and regional specialty beers; I mean the so-called "majors". Back before Prohibition, there was a bar on nearly every corner in the big cities (or steel towns, coal towns, fishing towns, etc), and each was owned (either literally or by way of "franchise") by one of the big beer companies. Anheuser, Miller, Iron City, whatever. The corner bar only served that brand. The gang that controlled that block or neighborhood drank that beer and you'd better, too if you knew what was good for you. "Better Taste!", "Less Filling!" might be a cute basis for a commercial, but in the real world of working-class gangs, those statements (which were really the equivalent of "I'm a Crip", "I'm a Blood") would have been enforced with bats and broken bottles. Or worse. This wasn't supported or encouraged by the brewers, of course. In fact, it really didn't have anything to do with beer at all. It was about which bar you hung out at, and that meant which neighborhood you belonged in, and which gang's support you had. It's a whole 'nuther kind of "brand loyalty" than just buying a bottle of Wild Turkey because you always do.

[Birdo]

This thread caused me to by a bottle of HH White Label 6y/o BIB 100proof, and a bottle of cheap Evan Williams.

So far, the HH White Label was found to have a strong flavor, very dry and spicy finish, alot like OGD BIB, but only $8.49. Must be 'old style', may be this what you would call 'rough' or 'not smooth'. Can't see myself falling in love with white label.

The Evan Williams is much better and has the HH qualities I enjoy at a low price of $10.29/750ml. A good cheap bourbon, smooth with flavor, not unlike very old barton stuff, but VOB is better if you can find it. Easy to see why this is a big seller, alot better than beam white for less cash.

[393foureyedfox]

Im hearing rumors of EW BIB white label coming to KY soon. Id love to know how that compares to the HH BIB white label. anyone know?

[Birdo]

i think the green 6 year 90 proofer works best, now that ive made my way through all the HH 90-100 proofers. 95% as good as their Larceny, and half the price.

i was enjoying the HH samplings, until I came across the 120 KC and bookers....dammit. of course, theyre 5-6x the price.

Hey fox, what is your favorite of the HH branded bourbons? The White is okay, but a bit rough and its the only one I've tried. Should I get Green or Gold next time?

[393foureyedfox]

Hey fox, what is your favorite of the HH branded bourbons? The White is okay, but a bit rough and its the only one I've tried. Should I get Green or Gold next time?

i've had them all again and again.....as all you guys say, your tastes dont stay the same. Of stuff under the HH name (not HH made stuff with other names), if I had to buy one, i would now go with the 6 year white label BIB. I think the gold label is the same exact stuff, but 4 years old, and a tad bit rougher. second choice would be the green 90. Third would be the gold BIB.

BUT.......HH has just started distributing Evan Williams BIB white label in KY. it's hard to find so far as its only been available a few weeks and most places havent ordered it yet, or dont know about it yet. I had my neighborhood liquor store owner call his HH rep and order me a bottle. its about $15. Its a LOT like the HH BIB white label 6 year, but with less of the distinct HH "corny/minty, whatever you want to call it" taste to it. THATS the one I would get. second choice the HH BIB white 6 year.

but, your tastes may be different than mine. I wont buy an 80-86 proof ANYTHING, so i cant tell you what the 80 proof HH stuff is like.


on a side note, ive tried 4R1B and it wasnt my thing. and I am not one of the guys who think all Beam stuff is funky. Remember, I wont buy anything under 90 proof, so with Beam, I like their bakers, bookers, and 120 KC.....so this might give you an idea of where my tastes lie and if yours may align or not.


enjoy!

[Birdo]

Fox, You probably don't know it, but my favorite is HH's Fighting Cock, and the Evan Willians white Label BIB sounds alot like Fighting Cock at about the same price. I'll grab EW BIB when I see it.

Right now, I'm getting to like the HH White label BIB, good strong bourbon. I saw HH Green label for $15/1.75l at Sams, but I passed on it.

I typically only drink higher proof bourbons like you. Usually on the rocks, but sometimes old fashioned.

Beams Knob Creek stuff is my top of the line pour. Didn't like Bookers well enough to pay that much.