Whats this about blending bourbon

[Bob Barker]

This was a great topic I had no clue people have bad success blending bourbons. I'm going to have to try this Ed if I can refine some bourbons to my precise palate.

[gillmang]

Good to hear this topic is of interest to some. Apart from its long history in the American whiskey business, the vatting (as it is often called) of bourbons and/or straight ryes is an extension really of the basic whiskey mash bills. So my advice also is to learn about the mash bills of the whiskeys being consumed. That, together of course with personal taste data (the subjective side) will enable good minglings/vattings/blendings to be made. Whiskey mash bill information is sometimes available on company web sites, in books about bourbon, on discussion boards like this one and elsewhere on the interweb.

One of the simplest vattings is say to combine a Jim Beam bourbon (any one) with a wheater bourbon (almost any one). The wheater has no rye in the mash. The Beam has no wheat but has the strong taste characteristic of the brand in the last 20 years or so. You will "cut" the big forward taste of the Beam and "add" to the same degree to the relatively mild taste of the wheater. Initially it almost doesn't matter what age these are although in time you can refine vattings in this way, e.g. using bourbons the same age, or mostly of one age and a little of an older one to "season" it, and so forth.

It is the whiskey mash bill though which really gives clues how to proceed. Once you understand what is in the whiskey mash bill of a given brand, you can "increase" the rye in a mash, lower it, add another grain (e.g. wheat), etc.

Gary

[GBrough]

I am trying to figure out what to with my Angel's Envy it is to light for me. I am getting one of the bourbons I listed on my poll, maybe in a few it will be a nice change but that time is not now.

[gillmang]

Well, I found Angel's Envy a little light and young. The wine flavor only partly hides it so to speak. I would blend it with an older, flavor-heavy bourbon. Beam Black, say, or any of the ones you had on your list earlier. Start with small amounts in the glass, 50/50 or if that is not right, I'd think more of the Angel's Envy. Anyway it is an example of likely increasing the rye content of the Angel's Envy but also the age in part.

Gary

[GBrough]

I was thinking a 50/50 of angels envy and Elijah Craig 12 year, the matured EC12 might compliment the youth of the AE.

[GBrough]

It worked good, but 40 bucks for a bourbon like AE while good i will not get it again, something like rowans or knob creek single barrel wouldve done better for my taste.

[gillmang]

I understand but by adroit blending you can minimize your "loss".

Gary

[Bob Barker]

I was thinking a 50/50 of angels envy and Elijah Craig 12 year, the matured EC12 might compliment the youth of the AE.

I agree with you completely I would think ec 12 would add some nice oak to the light angel's envy!

[GBrough]

It was excellent, i will get more EC12 just for this purpose, or try some four roses small batch or single barrel to bring it up. The blending was a perfect 50/50 and i enjoyed trying it out.

[Birdo]

I don't like the idea of mixing good bourbon with bad. This 'Angels Envy' reeks of gimmick to me. I like wine okay, but barely. I sure don't want wine flavored bourbon.

Without knowing what I'm really talking about, I would throw Angels Envy into the same camp as bourbon gimmicks like Devils Cut, flavored bourbons like Red Stagg and the like.

I questiion whether these products can be classified as bourbons based on the legal definition.

Cheers! Will be cracking open a new bottle of Knob Creek Single barrel this fine evening. Still can't get my hands on EC12 barrel proof except for $74 at the Bourbon Heritage Center in Bardstown, but it's a prototype 1st run, so it has value in it's own right. I'm cheap and will wait for the offering under $50. As a process engineer, I'm willing to speculate that KCSB and EC12-barrel proof are similar products. They are both well aged, high proof with a rye mash bill.

[gillmang]

I don't really see any bourbon as bad, each is different with different characteristics. Young bourbon has more oily notes, older bourbon has less because the oils diminish under the influence of oak aging and ester formation. I like some oily feel but not too much, and some older tannic taste but not too much, so I'd blend those two to maximize the values of each. Only in the sense that one doesn't like to drink either neat can it be viewed as "bad" and correlatively that blending can minimize a "loss", but that is why I put those words in quotations since it is a relative thing.

Wine and bourbon? Matter of taste. I like it when only just a faint hint is there, which comes back to mingling again (although the wine taste of Angel's Envy is actually quite subtle).

Certainly I drink plenty of bourbons as they come but I like to blend them, it is parallel to making cocktails but also to mingling bourbons of different ages from different parts of the warehouse or different warehouses, which all distilleries do. Even with one recipe it is remarkable how they can differ in taste as e.g. various Heaven Hill rye-recipe brands show. I'd guess some brands have set amounts of each "taste" in the final batch to get the profile desired.

Gary

[GBrough]

I agree, but i am new with bourbons AE offers something different and the faint raisins feel nice on the palate and go well with the oakiness of EC12.

[EllenJ]

Some people like cars just as they come from the factory.
They tend to drive expensive cars, and prefer company options packages. They tend to choose their liquor the same way.

Other people prefer to buy a car, then head immediately for the internet or the J.C. Whitney catalog for aftermarket add-ons. They tend to think of liquor, including bourbon, as the important BASIS for cocktails.

Still other people (in my day, at least; maybe not so much anymore) prefer to piece together their "dream-machine" from parts of cars made by different manufacturers at different times. These are/were called "hot rods" (today's rat rods) if flat-out punch was the goal. Others, called "customs" strove to create finesse and nuance, sometimes to ridiculous extremes, but always as an expression of making something unique and wonderful.

Some did both, depending on what they wanted from a car at the time. George Barris and Ed Roth are two well-known names of people famous for their custom creations and hod-rods.

In the bourbon world, Gary Gillman equates well to those two, although his creations are not for sale. Gary is a tinkerer with whiskey in the same way that some people tinker with sheet metal and cylinder heads. He's certainly not the only one, but he has developed a reputation (which extends beyond this particular enthusiast forum) for being an outspoken proponent of such experimentation. I'm sure he has encouraged many more than just myself to add that bottle of too-woody bourbon to another of too-young bourbon and produce something more drinkable than either were before. As one who appreciates the history of our American distilling heritage and also the fun of debating details and asking questions that no one else either thinks (or dares) to, I appreciate those same qualities in Gary. But I think his really unique contribution is as an example of one who is unafraid to risk a couple bottles of liquor (or three, or forty) just to see what happens, and who takes the time to tell us about it.

[GBrough]

I heard about vatting so decided to ask about, and i am happy i did.

[gillmang]

John thanks, your analogies are very apt. But also, it is risking as little as a few ounces, one can do it in the glass and if the result is not liked, it is still a great whiskey and Coke! But not everyone is into it, of course, and I respect that. I just like to explain why it makes sense to me. (Cooking is another good analogy I think).

Gary