Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

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Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby theset74 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:16 pm

Greetings everybody,

I recently came into a bottle of Very Old Fitzgerald back from 1961. The bottle says it was barreled in 1951 and subsequently bottled ten years later when it was aged. I am curious to know if anybody has tried this one before and what would it be closest to on todays market. I havent opened it yet as I didnt know its value or anything like that, and with it being so old, it seemed like i should do some research before going too much further. I did speak to one gentleman about it and he didnt know very much other than that I should try to work my way up through some bourbons before I opened it. He also offered me $300 which i feel like i shouldve taken now. I dont think its really worth all that much and just wanted to see what you connoisseurs had to say about it.

Currently when I drink bourbon i usually head off for some Makers Mark or Buffalo Trace, but thats about it.I dont drink often and I am really a fish out of water on this one. Can anyone help me out? Is it even still worth saving or any good?

Thanks for any help you guys can give and I look forward to learning whatever yall have to offer, as I am more than new to the subtleties of this particular beverage and topic.
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Re: Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby theset74 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:34 pm

...Anybody know anything about this bourbon? Just bumping this thread to see what you guys have to say about it
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Re: Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby Bourbon Joe » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:57 pm

This should be very good bourbon and is worth as much as $100 for the full bottle. Very Old Fitz would be worth that 300 dollars. You can drink it or sell it. Since it was bottled in the same year as I graduated from high school, I would offer you 100 for it, if it is in pristine condition. Let me know.
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Re: Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby Birdo » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:51 am

I would sell it. Corks have shelf lifes, and it may have gone funky. 50 years in a bottle is a long time. The expert at Heaven Hills told me around 10 years for an unopened bottle, then finish it within a year after opening. He may be full of it though. Most bottles don't last more than 6 months in my house.
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Re: Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby theset74 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:13 am

Bourbon Joe wrote:This should be very good bourbon and is worth as much as $100 for the full bottle. Very Old Fitz would be worth that 300 dollars. You can drink it or sell it. Since it was bottled in the same year as I graduated from high school, I would offer you 100 for it, if it is in pristine condition. Let me know.
Joe



Wait, it is a Very Old Fitzgerald, so im confused. Is it worth $100 or $300? The bottle is in really good condition, I dont see any seepage around the top or discoloration.

Actually I just checked on ebay, i dont know why I didnt think of that earlier to gauge the price as that is generally a real time value of what people will pay, but it seems that this particular bottle should be worth somewhere in the $400-$600:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Rare-One-o ... 2a2314bec5

This one is newer and its only an 8 year old

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sealed-Very-Old ... 2c681f9a64

This one is a 12 year old and just slightly younger than my bottle

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Very-Old-F ... 4d0450afca

Now this one is younger as well and again only an 8 year old

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sealed-Vintage- ... 4169bed01e

This is the only that was older by a year, but it was also only an 8 year.

Now thats been over the last month or so, so those should be a fair measuring stick on the price. And please dont get me wrong, I am not trying to insult anyone since you guys are the experts, but why has it been selling so high? Whats so great about this Bourbon? Like I said, I dont know much about it, and I am still inclined to keep it for myself as it seems to be worth a little something and I think I would learn to appreciate it later on in life. I mean I really do only spring for bourbon when I am in the drinking mood, I just havent learned the subtleties or the distilleries and things like that.


On a side note, ive been doing some browsing and realize that ebay has been practically shut down on selling these types of bottles (I noticed there were no active listings aside from an old empty) apparently it had been fine until that 12 year old bought some bottles and exposed how lax the age verification was. What effect does that have on the value of something like this? Wouldnt that suggest I hang onto this bottle for some time? I mean now there really isnt anywhere for someone to pick these bottles up unless they stumble on one and the way it looks, there is a huge interest in this stuff stemming from the Pappy Van Winkle line.

I will say that I have no problem entertaining offers on this bottle if someone is truly interested and isnt trying to low-ball me, just shoot me a PM with your number and I will go from there, but be warned this bottle isnt leaving my possession for anything under $300, I value it more than that for my own personal collection.

Thanks for allowing me the opportunity to learn about this subject and i hope we can keep the conversation flowing, ive already learned a good deal about my bottle and look forward to hearing what you guys have to say.

Oh and one last thing, is there any way to preserve the bottle if I open it? Can it be transferred to a new set-up so the cork wont deteriorate and make the bourbon go all funky as one user mentioned? Or is my only option to just open it and drink it within a year?
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Re: Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby Bourbon Joe » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:25 am

It may be worth that much to the few fools that comprized E-Bay. But selling whiskey on E-Bay is history. Now you have to deal with sane people. That bottle is worth 300 to me and that's what I'd pay for it.
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Re: Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby theset74 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:20 am

Well let me ask you this, where else would one go to find a bottle of bourbon like this except for on ebay? Its not like its manufactured anymore and there isnt a one-stop shop for old bourbons to my knowledge, so as much as you bash ebay, that was the best place to find or sell a bottle. Most people are seeming to find them in attics and old liquor stores, and then listing them on ebay to cash in. Im not saying that ebay is the best place, but it does give a real time value for what people wanted to pay or else it wouldnt have sold. I mean I couldve went further back and shown the $1000 bottles that were sold, but they werent recent so not as much of an indicator, plus I was starting to see the VVOFs and other variations.

So to YOU its only worth $300, but to me ive seen several 'fools' as you labeled them buying them for over those prices. I also dont consider someone a fool for paying what they are willing for a product they deem valuable or desirable.

I think you are laboring under the impression that I am solely out to sell this bottle, and that is not the case at all. I am out to learn about this bottle and why and where its value comes from, then I will consider selling it or keeping it. I may be new around here and not as well versed on bourbon, but that does not mean I dont have an interest in the subject. I am a Makers Mark Ambassador (waiting for my personal batch as we speak :-D), and I do drink bourbon. However I am only 25 so I may not be at the correct appreciation level for a bottle of VOF and that is what i am trying to figure out.

So back to my last post to you. What is the driving force behind this bottles pricing? Why is it considered so valuable to so many people? What is its relation to Pappy Van Winkle, and what is the history in Weller-Stitzel.
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Re: Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby Bourbon Joe » Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:40 pm

It is valuable because it is rare. Also, the whiskey inside is very good. Most bourbon enthusiasts who really know and understand bourbons, consider this a very good bottle to DRINK. True enthusiasts probably would not offer you as much as I did because most have had it before or presently own it. E-Bay was a horrible place for bourbon geeks because of the ridiculous prices the un-informed or the rich would pay just kept the prices going higher without any reason, other than greed. That's all I will say about this subject. Good luck with your bottle. My offer just went down to $200.00.
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Re: Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby theset74 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:44 pm

Bourbon Joe wrote:It is valuable because it is rare. Also, the whiskey inside is very good. Most bourbon enthusiasts who really know and understand bourbons, consider this a very good bottle to DRINK. True enthusiasts probably would not offer you as much as I did because most have had it before or presently own it. E-Bay was a horrible place for bourbon geeks because of the ridiculous prices the un-informed or the rich would pay just kept the prices going higher without any reason, other than greed. That's all I will say about this subject. Good luck with your bottle. My offer just went down to $200.00.
Joe



So is there any way to open it and reseal it so as not to compromise the integrity of the bourbon or risk 'funk' from a deteriorating cork? If its as good as you say, then it sounds like a keeper to me. I would like to taste it to ensure its quality and to make certain that it hasnt been tainted if thats the route I choose to take.

You know, i would surmise that you are more interested in this bottle than you would like to admit to. You have offered me anywhere from $100-$300 and now at $200. I guess you didnt realize thats not why im here as i have yet to acknowledge you in that respect, other than to gain insight on its value. I think for me to part with this bottle I would have to see at least $475 for anyone who is curious enough to want it. But like I said, im not that into selling it.

Theres also a flaw with your thinking, there will always be new people looking for high-end bourbons and I have all the time in the world to sit on this. So in 5 years time when everyone has drank their bottles and mine is still un-opened, then I may see an amount of money I would be willing to part with this bottle for. In the meantime I will educate myself more on what I own and work my way up to enjoying it. See now thats a win-win, I incrementally educate myself and appreciate the product i have, or I sell it when the dollar amount reflects the value to me.

You do realize ebay was a double-edged sword right? For everyone who bought a bottle of VOF they likely enjoyed it and would be on the lookout for another, plus several were sold in a such a short amount of time that theres probably been a nice reduction in available stock. Like I said, ive got plenty of years ahead of me to consider what I want to do with this bottle.

So will anyone offer me up some distillery history on this bottle? I know it has to do with some Pappy Van Winkle product, but what exactly, whats its pedigree or lineage or whatever the lingo would be to trace back its origins?

PS this is a nice hostile environment to genuinely want to integrate and learn about what all of you love enough to sign up to an online forum to discuss.

Excuse me if I have come off wrong in this thread, I merely wish to understand what my bottle is about or at the very least be pointed in a direction to understand. You guys know the websites to direct me to for information in regards to its history and such, i am simply an amateur trying to learn what those of deeper knowledge have to offer.
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Re: Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby Bourbon Joe » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:11 pm

Your bottle was distilled and bottled by the Stitzel-Weller distillery (DSP KY-16) located in Shivley Kentucky.It is basically and extra aged Old Fitzgerald. The distillery in those days was run by Pappy Van Winkle. I don't know what else I can tell you except that it is very good bourbon. If I were you, I would open it, decant it through a coffee filter to remove bits of cork that will occur when you try to pull it out. Then DRINK IT MAN.
Joe :)
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Re: Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby theset74 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:29 pm

Thanks for the tips, see I didnt think about the cork and the coffee filter, thats a great idea.

So now, Weller-Stitzel was the distillery, did they make any other Bourbons? Perhaps something under their own label? Ive also heard the Pappy van Winkle name quite a bit when researching this bottle, was he supposed to be a well-known distiller? I see on the boards that people are hawking after the Pappy, so I assume there is still something in production today, im guessing using Pappy's recipes and methods? What other brand or distilleries are associated with Pappy van Winkle?

I also live in a small town, and would be more than willing to check for any available Pappy if i see it. Depending on how many bottle they have I would grab some for anyone who would want them.
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Re: Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby Bourbon Joe » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:36 pm

There were several other bottlings that were made at ststzel-weller but Old Fitzgerald BiB was the flagship.Pappy was the owner but not the master distiller. The master distiller such as Ed Foote would have made the whiskey. The Stitzel-Weller whiskies are all but forgoten today. The Van Winkle family owns the brands and todays Pappies are no longer S-W's. They are Bernheims. As such, especially to me, they have lost their ability to fetch high prices back when and I no longer chase them. I have two bottles of what you have and purchased them for 175 and 200 off E-Bay when things were somewhat sane and managable. I drink mine from time to time. I really enjoy it. Sorry to come off so upity but we here no not like people who gouge people on E-Bay. But that's over with. Enjoy your day.
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Re: Very Old Fitzgerald 10 y-o 1951-1961

Unread postby Bourbon Joe » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:40 pm

Bourbon Joe wrote:There were several other bottlings that were made at ststzel-weller but Old Fitzgerald BiB was the flagship.Pappy was the owner but not the master distiller. The master distiller such as Ed Foote would have made the whiskey. The Stitzel-Weller whiskies are all but forgoten today. The Van Winkle family owns the brands and todays Pappies are no longer S-W's. They are Bernheims. As such, especially to me, they have lost their ability to fetch high prices back when and I no longer chase them. I have two bottles of what you have and purchased them for 175 and 200 off E-Bay when things were somewhat sane and managable. I drink mine from time to time. I really enjoy it. Sorry to come off so upity but we here do not like people who gouge people on E-Bay. But that's over with. Enjoy your day.
Joe
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