Very Very Old Fitzgerald

[cowdery]

I don't believe I was reacting to anything you wrote, Jeff.

My issue with discussions of selling bottles of alcohol is that it could be construed as criminal activity, as in the facilitation of a crime, the crime being the unlicensed sale of alcohol. That issue aside, and assuming forthright representation, I am not offended by people who hope to profit by selling something they own for a price a potential buyer is happy to pay. Some people here and elsewhere do seem to be offended by that, although it can be hard to determine exactly what it is about the transaction that gives offense. If, however, I gave the impression I was referring to you in my remarks, I don't believe that I was and I'm sorry that impression was wrongly conveyed.

This has come up in the past in the context of people who (seemingly) go out and Hoover up the distillery limited editions, then post them on eBay for a considerably higher price than they paid. I'm offended by that primarily because people who do that are criminals, in addition to spoiling the hunt for everybody else. A person who will defy one law will defy any law and, therefore, can't be trusted.

[Bas]

All i see lately off you Chuck is some writing about a person selling a bottle to another becoming a criminal.
Are you saving the world from criminals Chuck? What the fudge are you talking about?
I had you on high standard because of your knowlegde on the industry but you have become lately a critic of the old fashioned/parental advisory/ hippocritic way.
I'm enjoing right now a bottle of Old Hickory from the seventies. I bought it from a private person on ebay , without a liscence, a criminal in your eyes.
Are you still a bourbonenthousiast or a pain in the ass for those who want to enoy old Bourbons no matter what??

person who will defy one law will defy any law and, therefore, can't be trusted.

What crap.
You have always driven 50 miles an hour ??
you have never have ever sat behind the wheel with any liqour in your throat at all?
you have never stole anything from local supermarket?

By God chuck , we must all be on our knees and bow to saint Chuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cowdery]

I can take the heat. It's a simple case of shooting the messenger. Did I write the laws? Am I really a nagging nanny for believing that flagrant disregard for the laws of the land undermines civil society? At the very least, people should know what the laws are and what they risk by breaking them. Bas, if that makes me unsuitable for your club, so be it.

[TNbourbon]

(Okay, okay -- not going away mad, just going away.)

[JBF1213]

Meet my "happened into by random luck."

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/louisville/obituary.aspx?n=giulio-victor-fantoni&pid=122968849

While I can quietly sit back and watch the Bourbon world discuss the legalities, let alone the moral horror, of selling bourbon or, god forbid, realizing a profit from something of value, I will not have my father's death be boiled down to "random luck." This was mentioned in my first post generally to explain how such a bottle came into my possession, but apparently was not understood by all who have read this long string of posts.

Lastly, it might surprise you to know that the Collector's Corner is described as "Have an old/rare bottle you'd like some more info on? "

Right place, right venue, right experts, right answers. The bottle still sits quietly in my liquor cabinet and I welcome all reasonable offers. Short of providing it, at a fair price, to this bourbon loving community, I'll offer it to the rest of the world. If I've ever given the impression that I'm out to make thousands of dollars, then one should better read my previous post wherein I clearly state otherwise by saying . . . .

"Would I take $1,000.00 for the bottle, probably. Would I take far less if I knew it was going to someone, or a group of people who might truly appreciate and enjoy it for what it is, absolutely. Surprisingly, the latter I've not yet seen. I was trying to avoid the mass market, but that seems the unfortunate route. "

JBF

[mozilla]

JBF, please don't be offended by our open discussion of this topic on your thread.

You have gone about asking your question in the appropriate way and have recieved very little actual heat for it. All is good, there. Please don't feel that members are dogging on you...if you had posted improperly...I would have been the first to call you on it. The heat you may feel...is mostly from the lack of patience we have for this topic.


Now, to explain the profit question. From what I have noticed, no one cares whether or not someone makes a profit on their own accord. Period!

The problem arrises when someone shows up with an attitude....and says..."I don't care about drinking this bottle, all I want...is for you(us) to tell me how much it's worth". They have no interest in anything BUT money...and want to use our combined knowledge to create this profit. We have attempted to quash this issue...but it keeps rearing it's head.

Most of that offending.....could be curtailed by the OP doing their own research....which is thoroughly available on almost any site that focuses on bourbon history. Again, the big problem is....they don't do their own research....and believe it is our obligation to set their price and fill out their auction info.

Finally, this site does not condone the illegal sale of alcohol and will not be a part of setting the prices for that market.

[sailor22]

Chuck is giving everyone some free legal advice while at the same time leaving a written record opposing any illegal activity - very neatly done counselor. Weather or not you pay any attention to that advice is up to you. Don't get on his case, he didn't make the laws.

I have no problem with queries as to value of Bourbon a non enthusiast has in their possession. Refer them to ebay and perhaps with some background like Spun did and everyone is happy. Everyone benefits. If you know how to work the PM function it might occasionally be of some benefit to you.

Em - invite me nxt time you crack a VVOF and I'll be there

[JBF1213]

Mozilla: I'm not offended by the discussion at all. I think it was painfully obvious WHAT did offend me. As for making a profit vs. enjoying a fine bottle of bourbon, please please understand. I love bourbon, fine wine and gin in equal parts. I am humble enough to know that I could not discern the difference between a VVOF and most other fine bourbons similar to my difficulty in discerning the fine differences between old Bordeauxs. I figured my willingness to address my question and possibly part with the bottle to the true bourbon lovers would be appreciated. That attempt, for whatever reason, failed.

Suffice to say, I understand and appreciate the groups thoughts. I took offense at a poorly worded comment. If any of you met me, you'd quickly learn I'm most interested in making the world a "funner" place if possible and surely a VVOF would make some quite happy.

JBF

[bourbonv]

I will jump in here. Since you appear to live in Louisville and say that if all you want is for the bottle to be drank by people who appreciate bourbon, then take it down to the Bourbon's Bistro one night and I am sure that there will be many people who would be happy to help YOU drink the bourbon and explain the finer points of the whiskey. If you are looking for a profiable sale, then you might still take it down to the Bistro.

[JBF1213]

Bourbon's Bistro:

I've called them weeks ago without response. I've e-mailed the individual on whom they rely for valuation and purchasing rarer bourbons . . . without response. I've asked others in the restaurant community. Most, like I, don't believe they would appreciate it enough to warrant purchasing or drinking.

You has a good thought though.

JBF

[bourbonv]

"I've e-mailed the individual on whom they rely for valuation and purchasing rarer bourbons"

That would be me. I do seem to recall the email, but I have been very busy and it was a low priority and not answered it and its buried about two pages down by now. Sorry if it inconveinced you. I did give John and Jason and answer when I was up there a few weeks ago, so you might try giving them another call. You could also bring it up to the Bistro next Tuesday during Our Bourbon Society meeting - I can guarantee that there will be plenty of people who would love to share it with you and we would appreciate it as a fine bourbon.

[sailor22]

JBF - I think he is referring to a monthly meeting of Bourbon wonks at the Bristro. Any number of folks at that event would probably be interested. Not a sale to the restaurant proper.

Good luck - you are obviously trying to find a good home for your dad's whiskey and I appreciate the sentiment.

[JBF1213]

Mike: Now that I think about it, you were the man. I'll drop them a line. Thanks for your assistance. Monthly meeting huh? Sounds interesting. JBF

[independant]

Guess what I just found on a certain auction site. Starting at 200.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-Very-Old-Fitzg ... 286.c0.m14

[JBF1213]

Even with the same pictures! It has waited over 28 years to be appreciated and now the game is afoot. JBF