How Do You Feel About Limited Editions

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How Do You Feel About Limited Editions

Unread postby cowdery » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:59 pm

I’m working on a story for WHISKY Magazine about limited edition American whiskey products such as Heaven Hill’s Parker’s Heritage Collection, the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection, and Four Roses Barrel Strength.

On the one hand, it’s kind of fun to try to land one of these rarities. They wouldn’t be special if everybody could get them. On the other hand, do you get frustrated if your sources sell out before you get there, or sell out to “special customers” and never even put the product on the shelf? I know those of you who live where these items aren’t even distributed are frustrated by your lack of access to them.

And, for the retailers among us, have you experienced the practice of distributor sales representatives using access to such in-demand rarities to leverage other sales? How do you feel about that? Do you consider it business-as-usual and part of the dance, or do you feel like you and your customer are not getting a fair shake?

For all of us, how limited is too limited?

By limited-edition bottling, I mean both one-offs and annual releases, and although commemoratives could technically be included, I’m more interested in special bottlings of unique whiskeys than I am in special bottlings of the producer’s standard product, so I’m not really talking about the Jack Daniel’s or Maker’s Mark commemoratives here.

For demand to greatly exceed supply is the goal with this type of product, but when you succeed, how do you fairly allocate the limited stock? You want the buzz that comes with something that is highly desirable and hard-to-find, but you don’t want to alienate customers or consumers, who might be frustrated in their efforts to obtain the limited edition du jour.

Finally, do you think that the producers have correctly estimated the market for this type of product, possibly overestimated it, or possibly underestimated it?

Come on, write my story for me. :)
- Chuck Cowdery

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Unread postby Dump Bucket » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:59 pm

Great topic...

Here is my two cents wourth... I am only about 3-4 years into the W(h)isk(e)y / Bourbon consumption, But many years in Ru(h)m and far too many on wine :drunken:

From a year to year limited edition it is great to have the opportunity to see how something aged over the different years. In this these are similar to wines. There are only so many available for each year, the great years always become hard to find, and the value goes up quickly....

I have thoroughly enjoyed tasting the different Birthday Bourbons, Staggs, Weller’s, etc... Knowing they are coming out year to year allows me to plan for the release and try to find a contact to get them...

For supper special releases like some of the anniversary Bourbons (Four Roses 1442 and WT 1855) it has been a lot of fun to enjoy a product that was given "special" attention to represent the best of their practice.

As far as total availability, I believe that the market has driven the total production runs. It seems that eventually everyone on this site gets one of the special products they are looking for… If half of this group was griping they could not find the product… then there would be a problem… having a portion complaining they have not been able to find it “yet” is the perfect run rate I would think… This network allows for the product name and the product to get further out into the market… and since this group is really a part of the market they are going after… so far it might be the right balance…

I like the limited editions, I think they are a great way to continue to increase interest for the producer, and are a great way for the consumer to taste diversity in their favorite products.

Personally I am more frustrated with the lack of availability of certain products in the US that are only available in Europe, Japan, etc.


anyhow... there is my two cents....
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Unread postby Foghorn » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:28 pm

It is very frustrating to me here in Chattanooga to not be able to get some of the items that everyone raves about. BTAC, PVW 15 yo, Very old Fitz to name a few. By definition limited release means there are just so many bottles but the way they are distributed is what frustrates me the most. Chattanooga has 0 bottles of PVW 15. A couple of phone calls to the Nashville area last week found 11. One store owner told me not to worry about reserving some as it didn't sell that fast. Seems everyone would be better served if distribution was more effective. It seems to be an all or none proposition. I would at least like to think I have an opportunity to purchase these special bottles without having to drive 6 hours to Kentucky. On the other hand Kentucky is a beautiful place to visit and I need to get up there anyhow. :)
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Unread postby bourbonv » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:49 pm

Chuck,
You always ask the most interesting questions. Maybe that is why I enjoy your writings so much.

I am not big on the "Limited Edition" idea. I don't mind special releases, but I think that they should be in a quantity that will give anybody a chance to acquire one and not just those with "connections". I think that when a company releases a product is such a limited quantity that only those who know the liquor distributor gets a bottle, then it is a bullshit release.

I personally don't go out of my way to get special or limited releases.The only one that I consistantly purchase every year is the Old Forester Birthday Bourbon. I like it because it is a different flavor every year and it is a good way to experience the changes in flavor that the same mash bill can make by aging it differently. It is also easy to purchase without having to get on a waiting list or pull strings at the distillery.

I have no problems with a product that is released only once a year and in limited quantity, as long as the quantity is such that everybody whoi wants one can get one and a stray bottle or three may still be on the shelf six months later.

Now I don't have a problem for special bottles that do something like honor a distiller (Jimmy Russell and Jim Rutledge come to mind) as long as they truely are one shot deals and not something that is watered down with new "honor" bottles every year. I guess what I am saying I respect those bottlings that are truely honoring the distiller and not simply using them to market a whiskey, because sooner or later they are going to start putting crap whiskey in the bottle and sell it at very high prices to a gullible market.

I hope this gives you some answers to your question.
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Limited Editions

Unread postby PaulO » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:09 pm

I don't have any problem with companies coming out with special products as luxury goods. I probably won't buy any of the really expensive stuff. I think many of us have discovered that there are quite a few good bourbons that sell for not much more than the "well" brands. What frustrates me is that I can't buy any Four Roses products at all around where I live. The same is true for a number of other brands that get good reviews on this site. For me EW 1783, and Old Fitz BIB were like limited editions in that they were only available locally for a brief time.
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Unread postby Bourbon Joe » Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:42 am

I have no problem whatsoever with the release of special bottles. One problem I do have is trying to get one, especially since I live in a control state. Being a bourbon enthusiast in a control state is tough duty. I never get a chance to buy ANY special bottles in Pennsylvania. Thank God I have good friends in states that get them. And Thank God for Binny's.
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Unread postby brendaj » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:11 pm

Chuck,
I'm with Mike, you always bring up such good stuff...
or sell out to “special customers” and never even put the product on the shelf?

I find it ironic that MM is the one that really capitalized on that marketing spin in their beginning. Yet, they didn't take it to the next level. When Maker's first came out, you had to know a liquor store guy to get it. He would hold a bottle for you. Distribution was limited, and that made it special. Now the distribution is limited for different colored wax, but the whiskey is the same... :roll:

I agree with Paulo in that, I mostly don't buy the $80 a bottle stuff. I'd rather hit a good Bourbon bar, and pay $10 or $15 for a shot as a test. I realize I have the good fortune to live in Kentucky where that is possible. But from a local point of view, I'm happier with the $20/$30 a bottle 'special' stuff. God Bless 4 Roses, BF and HH. Their 'special' stuff is affordable, and 4 Roses Small Batch rocks! Like Mike, I love tasting the Birthday Bourbon from year to year. And HH and 4 Roses Single Barrel releases are affordable and widely distributed.

So while I have been known to spend what I considered big money on a few of the last bottles of Weller 19 and Wild Turkey 12 I could find, I believe the idea of an $80 (much less $200) bottle goes against the very thing that is Bourbon.
As a Kentuckian, I consider it my civic duty to drink Bourbon, smoke and bet the ponies. Its a tuff job, but someone has to do it...
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Unread postby ggilbertva » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:56 pm

brendaj wrote:

I agree with Paulo in that, I mostly don't buy the $80 a bottle stuff. I'd rather hit a good Bourbon bar, and pay $10 or $15 for a shot as a test.


hmmm...maybe so. I wanted to try some WT Tribute at a bar in D.C. They wanted $60 for about 2-3 oz shot. I had some Pappy 20 at another bourbon bar and paid $25. Sometimes, those higher end bourbons cost too much to just try. My bottle of Tribute cost me $85....$15 more than the shot.
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Unread postby brendaj » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:44 pm

Well, yeah. Like I said, I have the good fortune to live in Kentucky. And yes, I think the MM Bar on 4th Street charges $25 for Pappy 20. I can understand that. But that bar in DC is wacked. The Bourbons Bistro marks their stuff up, but they don't try to pay for their bottle with the first two shots. Those sort of prices for a single shot are just wrong.
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Unread postby Bucc58 » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:49 pm

A regular bar gets ~$125 out of a fifth of Jim Beam. Thats why I don't drink at bars unless I take my own. I'm getting pissed off because I was told I was getting a bottle of the Parkers Heritage Collection in mid-December and I am still waiting. :x
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Unread postby Mike » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm

Only one of the limited edition bourbons, one of the Antique Collection bourbons, has been available to me. It is difficult to even get Stagg, or WLW, or Handy Rye or some of the other annual or semi-annual releases here in Georgia, but not impossible.

It seems to me that these annual or semi-annual release products that I can get are going up and up in price (Birthday Bourbon is still below $40, but not long ago it was $29). As far as I can see (not all the way to KY for sure), I think the blame for these prices in GA lies to a great extent with the distributors.......and with folks like me who have been willing too often to pay too much. In Georgia. the distributors have inordinate power over who gets what. They learned early and well how to lay their money down for the legislators and have succeeded in having laws passed that are as arcane and one sided in who they favor as any on the books. Only the funeral directors can compare in having special laws that favor them.

I suspect that bourbon is coming late to the party that has been going on a while for Cognac and Scotch. Who can blame them for bringing out LEs or SRs? If they go too far, as Mike Veach suggested they might, then there will be corrections in the market (a recession might also bring an end to these games, but people who pay top dollar are often recession proof).

I know of nothing I can do, short of being more selective than I have in the past about paying the prices I have often paid. I have already begun to trend in that direction, probably because after three or four years of trying most everything new I could find, I am growing weary of it.

Overall, I think Limited Edition or Special Releases are a good thing. They produce some interesting and even occasionally great products, but they also can and do misfire. But I know of no better way to 'manage' this than to let the customer do the deciding as to whether it is worthwhile.

It does not trouble me greatly if I cannot get a bottle of a LE or SR bourbon or whiskey. I already know that no matter how 'great' or 'special' it is, after so much hype, there will be something of a disappointment by the third or forth time I sip it, if not before.

Sorry, Chuck, but my two cents worth is probably worth much less than two cents.
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Unread postby ggilbertva » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:22 pm

brendaj wrote:Well, yeah. Like I said, I have the good fortune to live in Kentucky. And yes, I think the MM Bar on 4th Street charges $25 for Pappy 20. I can understand that. But that bar in DC is wacked. The Bourbons Bistro marks their stuff up, but they don't try to pay for their bottle with the first two shots. Those sort of prices for a single shot are just wrong.


I agree...it is whacked. They have a very nice selection of bourbons, including out of production (e.g. Old Fitz BIB, Old Taylor). I've been to this place once and it's nice but I probably won't go back. I have a large enough collection that I really don't need to frequent the bars.
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Unread postby TNbourbon » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:28 pm

I'm a 'Tweener' -- I fall somewhere between 'I don't care!' and 'I've gotta have it!'.
I'm NOT going to make a special trip to KY to snag the newest bottle of "Uncle Grand-Dad's Special Reserve". That said, if "Uncle Grand-Dad" just happens to be on the shelf in front of me, chances are good I'm going to pluck it.
For whatever it's worth, Parker's Heritage Collection is the best 'new' whiskey I've tasted this year. I don't pay it no nevermind because it'll be something different next year -- along with a half-dozen other things.
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Unread postby bourbonv » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:09 pm

I agree that the Limited Editions and Special Releases do help create interest in the distillery and American Whiskey as a whole. I simply think that they should not be so limited that most consumers have an almost zero chance of getting to purchase some. Tim seems to have a similar attitude to myself in that I rarely go out of my way to purchase a special bottle, but will purchase one if I find it on the shelf and the price is not too steep.

What I would like to see is more bottlings like the Birthday Bourbon. It is an established brand with plenty of whiskey to bottle. Pick barrels for a taste profile and bottle it. You don't have the insane shortage of say the Buffalo Trace Experimentals and the consumer can learn something about the brand every year as they pick a different taste profile to highlight.

These releases of one or two barrels is just publicity stunts as far as I am concerned. They should save that type of product for a charity auction type venue where the idea is to rasie money for a worthy cause with an extremely rare whiskey that will not be available to the general public. That would create good publicity and help a worthy cause.
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