Questio for Ellen J - A.Overholt bottled 1872 rye whisky

Have an old/rare bottle you'd like some more info on?

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Questio for Ellen J - A.Overholt bottled 1872 rye whisky

Unread postby SolitaryTrucker » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:59 pm

Hello there people with knowledge!! was advised to look for user EllenJ hope I got it right !

Not really sure whether this is the right forum to be in for this question but here goes:

Whilst clearing out my recent desceased fathers house considering he never drunk in his life a number of wines dates 1921 and 1934 but fot this forum I found a bootle of rye whisky I believe was made in 1872. I have searched the net in research but the label is nothing like any i have seen most labels appear to be much later. The head line is

A.overholt & Co
Established 1810
Distillers of Monongahela Pure Rye Whisky
the finest rye whiskey in the world
Pittsburgh PA

the neck has a collar stuck on it it saying "Distilled in 1872 bottled by WM.J.Friday, Pittsburgh,PA"

The neck appears to have a lead seal over similar to a wine bottle with some sort of stamp impressed in on it at the very top. Once I cleared the half inch of dust of the bottle i havent had the guts to wash it in case i destroy the label the clarity appears very good a deep deddish brown with no sort of sediment at all. Any advice would be very helpful and any knowledge about it as a brand and the sort of taste it may have and whether its still drinkable would be graerfully received. Mctears the whisky auctioneers seemed very keen on it after an initial enquiry and though I put it up for sale I am now having second thoughts or what i should do with it to find out more about this bottle

Meanwhile i am going back to the 100% proof old grandad whiskey we found at the same time dated 1951 never been a bourbon drinker always been a malt man but its certainly growing on me

Thanks for your help Paul
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Unread postby cowdery » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:15 pm

I note that this is the third time you've posted this, first in June, then about two weeks ago, and now. I'm sure John (EllenJ) has seen it, though perhaps your direct appeal to him will draw a response.

Here are my observations. I note the words, "Especially Adapted for Medicinal Use." I've never seen a reference to "medicinal use" on a label except during Prohibition (1920-1933), which would make the 1872 date questionable. On the other hand, Prohibition-era medicinal whiskey was invariably sold in one pint bottles, because that's what the law allowed per prescription. This is a fifth (it is, isn't it?), which suggests it's not a Prohibition-era bottling.

Brown-Forman's Old Forester was the first American whiskey to be sold in sealed bottles only, starting in 1870. Whiskey in sealed bottles appealed to prescribers because it couldn't be adulterated, as cask goods often were. It could well be that Overholt made its first foray into bottled product specifically to appeal to the physician market, like Forester, and this is an example of that.

It seems odd to me that it would announce a date when distilled without announcing a date when bottled, without which the distilled-on date is pretty useless, since the point is to know how long it was in wood.

Other observations: no tax stamp? No proof?

But, assuming this is authentic and exactly what it appears to be, it's extremely rare, and that very rarity makes reliable authentication difficult.

Maybe John will have something to add.
- Chuck Cowdery

Author of Bourbon, Straight
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Unread postby afisher » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:22 pm

How about this theory: Wm. J. Friday was a retailer, who bought some bulk Overholt whiskey in 1872 and bottled it on demand till it ran out, hence did not bother with the bottling date. Let's see what the web says.

http://www.pre-pro.com/midacore/view_vendor.php?vid=PIT2473 lists Wm. J Friday as a whiskey merchant in Pittsburgh from 1889-1918. But dang, I see somebody at Whisky magazine has already reported this in response to yet another Trucker query.

At http://www.bullworks.net/virtual/minibott/mini497.htm is a listing of an advertising corkscrew marked "Wm. J. Friday & Co., 630 Smithfield St., Pittsburg, Pa." along with some text describing patents for such corkscrews dated 1897 and 1900. (From 1890 to 1911, the final "h" was officially dropped from the spelling of Pittsburgh.)

In a truly minor footnote to history, Wm. J. Friday & Co., Fine Whiskies is listed at http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/blair/history/frohsinn.txt as an advertiser in the program of the Fiftieth Anniversary of the Frohsinn Singing Society of Altoona, PA in 1914.

So if it's bogus, at least somebody went to some trouble...
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Unread postby afisher » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:42 pm

Well, looky here... solitarypaul (the trucker?) is selling it on ebay UK with an opening price of 250 quid.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VERY-RARE-A-OVERHOLT-RYE-WHISKEY-BOTTLED-1872-SEALED_W0QQitemZ270156613389QQcmdZViewItem
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Unread postby EllenJ » Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:35 am

Okay, folks, I'm back! I'm so sorry we missed y'all at the bourbon festival, but I'm glad it was able to continue on without us. We sure hope to see everyone soon and share some memories (and some fine bourbon).

As for this POS... total fraud. I hope the the person who submitted this didn't actually spend any money on it! The label is made up of parts of other labels (ain't Photoshop wonderful?).
=JOHN=
(the "Jaye" part of "L 'n' J dot com")
http://www.ellenjaye.com
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