Heaven Hill - older bottles

Have an old/rare bottle you'd like some more info on?

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Heaven Hill - older bottles

Unread postby ggilbertva » Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:08 pm

I have a lead on some older bottles of Heaven Hill. Probably from the 70's maybe early 80's. I don't remember seeing a UPC on the bottles when I looked one over. Who's had some of these older HH bourbons and what do you think?

At the same store is also some older KY Gentlemen. I've had this and I liked it. I don't remember dates of the bottles that I looked at but would suspect 80's timeframe.

I plan on picking up both the HH and KG in the next few weeks so feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Unread postby mozilla » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:07 pm

G,
Is there an age statement on the HH?
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Unread postby cowdery » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:06 am

It would be interesting to try. Just remember that the Heaven Hill label is a commodity brand. It's not their best whiskey. Plus in that period it had a questionable reputation. Some of that was just prejudice against the Jewish-owned upstart, but some of it was real. Earl Beam's whiskey was a little oily. Parker got rid of that when he took over.
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Unread postby gillmang » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:42 am

I like them, full of rich flavours and clearly one type of traditional bourbon whiskey. I believe it is in the vein that didn't want to rub out the corn taste, that derived from people who (way back, originally) knew corn whiskey well and young bourbon (which all bourbon was originally) and wanted to continue that kind of taste.

In the current HH-branded products, the taste is still there but not as heavy as in the 70's-era ones I've tried.

Both the older and current ones (e.g. HH BIB, the black and gold label) are excellent whiskeys to mix with pop due to their full taste, they go well especially with ginger ale. More pallid bourbons are great on their own but don't deliver as well in mixed drinks.

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Unread postby ggilbertva » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:49 am

mozilla wrote:G,
Is there an age statement on the HH?


No, there was no age statement that I saw. I look over the bottles and decided to pass on them. I wanted to stay within budget so instead I picked up some late 70's early 80's Old Charter 7 year, Old Forester BIB and 86 proof from early 80's. I also picked up some WT Old No. 8 Brand.
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Re: Heaven Hill - older bottles

Unread postby mozilla » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:52 pm

Picked up a 200ml of Heaven Hill 80 proof 1984.

It's a little light on the flavor, but definitely prefire HH flavor profile. Has a lot of floral notes mixed in with a very unique corn taste. I also have some Olde Dant from the 60's that has the same interesting corn flavor.

This bottle was not an outstanding bourbon, but was well worth the $1.99 I spent. If you get a chance to try a small bottle...give it a go,...for the pallet experience, if nothing else.
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Re:

Unread postby shoshani » Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:38 pm

cowdery wrote:Plus in that period (Heaven Hill) had a questionable reputation. Some of that was just prejudice against the Jewish-owned upstart, but some of it was real.


If people were prejudiced because Heaven Hill was Jewish-owned, their prejudice was severely misplaced. There were Jewish owners/directors of at least three major American distilleries during the post-Prohibition and postwar period that I can think of: Jim Beam (Harry Blum), Barton (Oscar Getz and his brother in law), and Schenley (Lewis Rosenstiel). Ike Bernheim was Jewish as well, but I don't imagine he was still around by then.

Distilling and rectifying were both well-known Jewish avocations in Europe during the last two centuries. I imagine that a "Jew's Who In Sprits" would be a thick read, since we were pretty much EVERYWHERE in the distilling industry - if not distillers themselves than certainly owners/partners, blenders, distributors, retailers, etc.
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Re: Heaven Hill - older bottles

Unread postby bourbonv » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:37 pm

There has always been a strong Jewish presence in the post Civil War bourbon industry. Simply look at the 1909 listing I posted in "lore" and you will see how many Jews owned companies in Kentucky. To my knowledge, they were always in the ownership/sales position and not distillers themselves, but many would serve their business houses as the master blender.

After prohibition there are the ones mention by shoshani, but also National and Seagrams as well. The fact that Heaven Hill was owned by Jews was not an issue. The fact that they had no "tradition" in the the distilling industry was. They were newcomers without a major brand. They were smart enough to hire a Beam so they at least had a major family doing the distilling, but they were still making up their own brands to promote. This is probably one reason why Heaven Hill has purchased so many established brands for their portfolio.
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Re: Heaven Hill - older bottles

Unread postby shoshani » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:16 am

bourbonv wrote:After prohibition there are the ones mention by shoshani, but also National and Seagrams as well.


I didn't mention Seagram because for some reason I could not recall a bourbon of theirs; now my brain taps my shoulder and reminds me that Seagram bought Frankfort Distillers, and thus Four Roses, around 1940. So we have the Bronfmans there, and I did indeed forget National Distillers.

I also rather foolishly omitted S. C. Herbst, although he was pre-prohibition.
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Re: Heaven Hill - older bottles

Unread postby mozilla » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:49 pm

Mike or others,
how much had the taste of HH changed up to the point of the fire. I have had a few examples and thought they were both very floral. Would they be after some changes were made or possibly before...and am I mistaking floral for oiley?

Any info on their flavor history would be appreciated.
Last edited by mozilla on Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Heaven Hill - older bottles

Unread postby drinkdrankdrunk » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:33 am

by cowdery on Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:06 am

It would be interesting to try. Just remember that the Heaven Hill label is a commodity brand. It's not their best whiskey. Plus in that period it had a questionable reputation.


Not trying to take this out of context Mr. Cowdery, but this portion of your statement does serve a pouprose. I promise.

The late 70's bottles of HH 80 and 86 proof I have are not their best whiskey, but by todays standards would fall in the mid-shelf range as far as taste and quality. Excellent balance and full flavor. As Jeff said floral and even more fruity the higher the proof.

I would definelty recommend this era of HH and offer up a trade to compare bottlings of what you have available to you Greg. Thanks!
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Re: Heaven Hill - older bottles

Unread postby ggilbertva » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:08 am

Don,

When I get back into DC, I'll hit the store that had the HH and pick up a bottle. There were a couple of beat up old boxes sitting in the basement with about a dozen or so bottles. If memory serves, they had a UPC but not sure of the Gov't warning. I'm pretty sure they were pre-fire distillate.
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