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Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:26 pm
by bunghole
The Van Winkle Family Gravesite.

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:36 pm
by bunghole
Thanks to Professor Veach and his many inside connections, we were able to gain access to the Stitzel-Weller Distillery. I am very pleased to report that the distillery is well taken care of, and is in excellent condition as the next series of photos well attest.

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:43 pm
by bunghole
The only parts of the distillery that are in poor shape are the stillhouse and physical plant, due to the extreme expense of asbestos removal. This is a sad thing as the still is the heart and soul of any distillery.

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:00 pm
by bunghole
Two more! The weathervane atop the gazebo at Stitzel-Weller and some barrels waiting to be bottled.

All photos property of Linn Spencer. Copywrite Linnin Images 2007.
Sorry for all this legal stuff.

I hope you enjoyed the series.

:camera: Linn :smilieflash:

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:11 pm
by bourbonv
Linn,
Awesome shots. I do have to give a little possible correction though - those barrels are just as likely to be flavoring whiskey for Crown Royal or Seven Crown as Bulliett.

The Cave Hill shots are great. I like the Weller family marker and the shadow of the cross over Pappy's stone.

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:31 pm
by bunghole
bourbonv wrote:Linn,
Awesome shots. I do have to give a little possible correction though - those barrels are just as likely to be flavoring whiskey for Crown Royal or Seven Crown as Bulliett.

The Cave Hill shots are great. I like the Weller family marker and the shadow of the cross over Pappy's stone.


Reality not withstanding as to the destiny of the bourbon in the barrels, I am pleased that you liked the photos.

So much so, that I am going to post three more!

Ha!

:arrow: Linn :camera:

Photos property of Linn Spencer. Copywrite Linnin Images 2007.

Yeah! Yeah! Whatever.

Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:54 am
by bunghole
"A Kind Word Never Broke A Tooth."

Re: Stitzel-Weller Time Line

Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:36 am
by Dump Bucket
Mike,
1943 - Cabin Still is withdrawn from the market because of a whiskey shortage due to the war (Liquor Store Magazine, Feb., 1970).


When was Cabin Still reintroduced to the market?

Was the Juice from Old Fitz/SW up until HH bought them in 1993?

Re: Stitzel-Weller Time Line

Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:04 pm
by cowdery
Nice pictures, Linn.

There was a period when only Maker's Mark was using the site, but now I think most of the activity is Diageo, as they are getting new make from a couple of different sources and barreling, and aging, it there. They're using that whiskey for Bulleit and I. W. Harper, and for both their American and Canadian blends.

Diageo is such a big company, and American whiskey is such a low priority for them, that it's hard to get answers about what they might do with this facility in the future. A mid-level Diageo exec opined to me not long ago that they need some kind of "homplace" for Bulleit, but he couldn't speculate about what that would be and it may have been just one man's opinion. Homeplace doesn't necessarily mean a distillery. It could be a restaurant/bar like the Maker's Mark one in Louisville. It could take any number of different forms.

We know Diageo recently kicked the tires over at Wild Turkey, but nothing seems to have come of it. I would be surprised if Diageo makes any bold moves in the American whiskey arena until the world economy settles down a bit more.

The place has such a strong identification with the Van Winkle family, with the Stitzel-Weller company, and with the Old Fitzgerald brand, that it's hard to imagine how they could effectively preserve its history while taking it in a different direction. They could conceivably reacquire Old Fitzgerald from Heaven Hill, but Fitz is probably Heaven Hill's #2 bourbon brand, volume-wise, after Evan Williams, so that seems unlikely.

The office building there is also quite nice. When the place was still operating, the plant manager was using Pappy's old office and he said it was nicer than the office of the company's CEO in Great Britain.

Re: Stitzel-Weller Time Line

Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:20 pm
by bunghole
cowdery wrote:Nice pictures, Linn.



A compliment!

By Chuck Cowdrey, no less.

I am honored. I do my best in all my photographic endevors.

Linn

Re: Stitzel-Weller Time Line

Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:51 am
by Dump Bucket
Mike, et al,
Is there a list of the bourbons that were being produced inder Stitzel/Weller during prohibition?

Re: Stitzel-Weller Time Line

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:50 pm
by cowdery
Old Fitzgerald
W. L. Weller
Rebel Yell
Cabin Still

Of course, there were many variations of each, especially Fitz and Weller. What am I forgetting?

Re: Stitzel-Weller Time Line

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:56 pm
by bourbonv
During prohibition there were no bourbon produced before 1929. Then the list chuck gave is pretty accurate. Now if you want to know what they SOLD during prohibition then that is a different story. They sold a lot brands, even a few of their own. These Brands include: Old Fitzgerald, Cabin Still, W L Weller, Mammoth Cave and Carolina Club. They represented Henry Mckenna, Waterfield and Frazier, Cascade, Old Charter, and a couple of others that I don't recall.

Re: Stitzel-Weller Time Line

Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:51 pm
by cowdery
Sorry, I mis-read the question.

Pre-prohibition, W. L. Weller and Sons was a broker, not a distiller, but they bought a lot of their whiskey from A. Ph. Stitzel. Pappy Van Winkle kept the company going with a medicinal whiskey license and they, as a consolidation warehouse, picked up a bunch of other brands. It was during Prohibition that Pappy acquired Old Fitzgerald from Charles Herbst and merged Weller and Stitzel. They were the first distillery to make whiskey in 1929, when the government permitted some distilling because stocks (for medicinal pursposes) were running low. Rebel Yell wasn't even created until long after Prohibition ended.

Re: Stitzel-Weller Time Line

Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:16 pm
by EllenJ
I know I'm a little late to the party, but I was looking at Linn's great photos and thought I ought to add a couple cents worth.

The Stitzel-Weller-produced brands should also include David Nicholson, sold in Missouri. Unlike most contract bottlings, there was no attempt to make it seem as though it was made in St. Louis. In fact, the label clearly states not only that it was Kentucky bourbon distilled at DSP-KY-16, but that it was the Old Fitzgerald Distillery. The label does, of course, also state that it was bottled by David Nicholson Distillery Co. DSP-MO-16. Earlier examples (1960s) indicate the distillery as Peter Hauptmann, also in St. Louis, but without a DSP#.

So, is the DSP# a coincidence? I know that name-only "distilleries" have long been the case for bottling non-bonded bourbon, which doesn't require identification of a DSP#, but the ones I'm familiar with were not out-of-state. Mrs. Boone, over at Heaven Hill, told us of how they would scribble the name of the distillery du jour on a piece of cardboard and hang it over the bottling line. For that day (or portion thereof), that WAS the name of the distillery, at least as far as meeting the requirements of the code was concerned. But could "DSP-MO-16", registered in Missouri, actually be located in Shively, Kentucky? Or was the bourbon tanked and shipped out to a bottling plant in St. Louis. For that matter, if it was shipped there for bottling, might that have been the same facility that David Sherman (now Luxco) uses?

Also, Mike, I'm pretty sure that David Nicholson still exists. Do you know whether that contract went to Heaven Hill with Old Fitzgerald or to Buffalo Trace with Weller? Or did Luxor take it along with Rebel Yell (which would suggest HH)?

And for the folks tuning in who are just beginning to try to understand where all these fabled brands originated, imagine how much fun just this one little ownership scramble (i.e. Diageo's Stitzel-Weller brands) will make tracing their origins fifty or so years from now. Now then, what was that you wanted to know about Old Mister Boston? :lol:

On another topic, which Chuck brought up, I thought the distilleries licensed to distill medicinal whiskey were doing so all through Prohibition; they didn't need to obtain special permission to start up. I believe A.Ph.Stitzel was among them. There were also licenses issued to distribute distilled spirits (to doctors, pharmacists, and bakers), and Weller & Sons possessed one of those. Where Weller differed from most other distributors, though, was that instead of purchasing existing product (the dreaded "medicinal whiskey" of legend, some of which had been rotting in barrels since before the World War) they bought their whiskey directly from a current distiller, Stitzel, as Chuck pointed out. I'm not sure if they bought new whiskey and aged it themselves or simply had access to good 4-year-old whiskey that Stitzel aged in their own warehouses. Either way, it made for a higher-quality product. Perhaps Mike knows if W.L. Weller & Sons already owned bonded warehouses in Shively before the merger and whether that influenced the choice of where to build the new Old Fitzgerald distillery?