The illustrious Mr Gillman on rye

[Mike]

A quote from Gary Gillman from another post today.

'The funny thing about rye is it shows itself in different ways depending on the whiskey. In some it is minty or wintergreen-like. In others more like cinammon candy. In others yet again more like roses or floral of some kind, and in yet further variations it is earthy/muddy-like or even oniony. I was nosing some straight rye and Canadian rye recently and the chives/onion thing hit me although then it changed. Rye is a very versatile feedstock.'

Excellent thoughts. I would add that in some cases rye adds a very fruity aroma and taste. I think Four Roses Single Barrel and some straight ryes are very fruity.

Gary, what about these 'Hirsch' label ryes from Canada. 'My' liquor store has a couple of them, I think one of them is 8 years old. Have you tried them and are they worth about $65 American?

[gillmang]

Thank you Mike for your kind words but I am a little abashed to have a thread named after me and in so nice a way.

I fully agree with you about the fruity quality of some rye. This is something over and above the effects of a particular yeast, and yet I think yeast had something to do with it at least at the beginning. Maryland rye whiskey was considered notably fruity and in part this was due to blending and addition of blending agents but which came first, the fruity all-straight rye of old Maryland or the blended article which was (I believe) an imitation of the real thing?

And why was the real thing fruity (if it was)? Because, I posit, the original ferments used top yeasts which worked in the pre-chilling days at warm temperatures. This produced fruity ale ferments, as we see to this day from the fine micro ales of America and England. Citrus and other estery notes are carried over into the distillate (as e.g., one sees from Calvados, applejack or indeed Cognac). And that is just one strand in the complex tapestry that is rye whisky or bourbon markedly influenced by rye grains.

I have not tried the Hirsch Canadians as yet, they aren't sold in Canada. I understand they are sourced from established Canadian distillers. I believe they will evidence the typical Canadian palate but probably in an individualistic way.

Gary

N.B. The growth of stray onions in lands devoted to rye cultivation may explain the chive-like flavors in some rye whiskies. This was a tip from an old book I read some time ago, i.e., when choosing your rye crop take it from a field in which onions are a stranger.

[Mike]

More excellent points, Gary. I think, as you seem to, that the rye is itself responsible for some of the fruitiness, but the ability of yeast to impart fruity flavors is well known in the beer world and had slipped my mind.

Four Roses is known to make use of different yeast strains that obviously have different influences on the taste of their bourbons. I have no idea about the yeast in Old Potrero, but that is quite fruity and, as you know, is 100% rye malt.

In my bourbon 'education', I have come to appreciate rye and its influence much more than I used to........at the same time not losing my love for the excellent wheated bourbons.

[mickblueeyes]

Quick note on the Hirsch Canadians. I believe they are sourced from Glenora Distillery. They each (8, 10 and 12) have a fairly straightforward palate with egg creams, vanilla, white chocolate and very little traditional rye character, IMO. Interesting expressions, but very geared to the Canadian/Blend drinker. I will have to revisit them and give a better tasting note.

[TNbourbon]

...I believe they are sourced from Glenora Distillery...

They ARE bottled there, but I don't think Glenora is the source of the whisky.
http://www.preissimports.com/Spirits/ht ... s_234.html

Note that is says Glenora bottles the Hirsches "as Preiss Imports acquires them".

[gillmang]

I agree with you, the Hirsch 12 shows a lot of flavour but in the Canadian style.

I feel now almost certainly it is not a flavoring whiskey.

The Hirsch 12 I have was bottled in Lawrenceburg, KY, not in Nova Scotia.

Gary