Black Maple Hill Rye?

Talk about Tennessee, American and Rye Whiskey here.

Moderators: Brewer, brendaj

Black Maple Hill Rye?

Unread postby Oregone » Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:53 pm

Binny's has an 18 y.o. expression. Anyone know anything about this rye?

Very spendy at $60, and I have to wonder about the Sazerac 18 y.o. Coincidence?

--Jeff
User avatar
Oregone
Registered User
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:07 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Unread postby Mark » Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:47 pm

I can't help you much Jeff about how it is because I never have had a bottle of the new 18yo... When Julian did the bottling of BMH originally there was a 15yo expression that I heard from 1 or 2 people was pretty good.

As for a coincidence between the new 18yo BMH rye and Sazerac I really don't think there is any besides their age... Sazerac comes from Buffalo Trace and word is that this new BMH is stock perhaps from HH. Either way, I am pretty sure it is not BT whiskey.

If you are willing to spend about $60 on a good old aged rye try picking up some Classic Cask 21yo or 22yo, whatever your place 'may' have... Quite a few of us were shocked by how tasty it was! :tonqe:
-=_Mark_=-
User avatar
Mark
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
 
Posts: 2269
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:11 pm
Location: SI, NY

Unread postby dgonano » Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:11 pm

Both the 18 yr BMH and the Classic Cask 15 and 21 and 22 yr bottlings

are products of Even and Drew Kulsveen. They could come from the

same stock.
Dave G.
dgonano
Registered User
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:35 am
Location: Baldwin, Md

Unread postby gillmang » Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:14 pm

Last night a friend served me a finger or so of Black Maple Hill 18 year old rye. I own a bottle of Classic Cask 21 year old rye and would be very surprised if they are from the same source.

The BMH 18 year old is just superb, not at all like ORVW's ryes or any other I have tried. I believe it is a "legal rye", i.e., probably 51% rye content but the rye is very evident as a kind of spearmint-like fresh taste wreathed in suave corn and cigar-like barrel tones. All the elements are in balance. No taste of old outdoorsy wood, just rich and clean all the way. I had this a few months ago when the bottle was just opened and this sample (bottle about 1/3rd full) seemed even better, whiskies sometimes seem to "quiet down" in the bottle.

If any expensive straight whiskey is worth the money charged this one is, and I prefer it to Classic Cask's rye which has a rum-like quality that seems not quite as good to me as what BMH offers.

As to origin, I would guess Heaven Hill. It seems like it might be Rittenhouse just that many years more down the road. If so it becomes almost a different animal, but I suppose it could be from almost anywhere at this age.

Anyway, doesn't matter, it is fine stuff, an elegant rye whiskey if that is not a contradiction in terms. I am starting to believe that rye whiskey is capable of many more shades of flavor than bourbon, all the good ones I have had (ORVW's, Classic Cask 21, Sazerac 18 year old, now this BMH 18 year old, Wild Turkey's) are quite different one to the other, more so than a gaggle of bourbons will usually show.

Gary
User avatar
gillmang
Vatman
 
Posts: 2109
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:44 pm

Unread postby cowdery » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:27 pm

It just seems curious to me that these ryes are coming on the market that were made in, if they're 18 now, 1987 or so and I wonder, why? And why did their maker keep aging them for that long, without selling any 8 year in 1995, or 10 year in 1997, etc.

It just seems strange because all along there have been the Wild Turkey, Beam, Overholt, Rittenhouse, etc. standard straight ryes at whatever they are, 4 to 6 years probably, and that was it until Julian started selling his. Now there seem to a whole bunch of very old ryes out there. Where did they come from?

I'm not suggesting anything sinister, it just seems curious.

Of course, the related question is what's in the pipeline? Was this some kind of fluke? Somebody made an imprudent amount of rye in 1987 and when that's gone, all that's in the pipeline is the usual 4-6 year old stuff, or is there a steady supply of well-aged ryes coming down the pike? (And is it the Pikesville pike?)

There certainly was a big burst of industry consolidation around that time. Beam acquired National, which brought Beam's Rye and Overholt under the same roof. Roughly in that time period Medley acquired Fleischmann and then was itself acquired by Glenmore which shortly after that was acquired by UDV/Guinness, and I know there were huge amounts of surplus whiskey floating around that series of transactions.

A few years ago we saw this burst of extra-aged bourbons, mostly from non-distiller marketers. Many (e.g., Ezra Brooks, Jefferson's Reserve) have had to pull back in the last year or so because they can't find enough bourbon in that age range in the bulk market. Maybe the same thing is happening now with ryes.

I have not had the ryes mentioned here, but I have been a big fan of the Van Winkle ryes and I am crazy about the current Rittenhouse BIB. The Rittenhouse is definitely Heaven Hill's product but I wonder where it was made, since from November of 1996 (i.e., 8 years ago) until mid-1999 (almost six years ago), Heaven Hill didn't have a distillery. It's possible that the current Rittenhouse is from the first batch of straight rye HH made at Bernheim, but just barely, and that still doesn't explain where this much older stuff came from.

We can all speculate and weave theories, of course, but I don't expect that anyone who knows will actually tell us.
- Chuck Cowdery

Author of Bourbon, Straight
User avatar
cowdery
Registered User
 
Posts: 1586
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:07 pm
Location: Chicago

Unread postby gillmang » Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:09 pm

How, I wonder, does one know the whiskey in any bottle is the age stated? Does the original vendor for example have to show something to the ATF, possibly in connection with alcohol tax compliance? I am curious how that aspect is verified because I would think there must be a way at least for the governments to be satisfied the contents comply with the description on the label. All the products I mentioned tasted their stated age, I am just wondering how it works.

Gary
User avatar
gillmang
Vatman
 
Posts: 2109
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:44 pm

Unread postby Oregone » Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:15 pm

gillmang wrote:How, I wonder, does one know the whiskey in any bottle is the age stated? Does the original vendor for example have to show something to the ATF, possibly in connection with alcohol tax compliance? I am curious how that aspect is verified because I would think there must be a way at least for the governments to be satisfied the contents comply with the description on the label. All the products I mentioned tasted their stated age, I am just wondering how it works.

Gary


Distilleries are heavily monitored and have a lot of paperwork to file, I believe.
User avatar
Oregone
Registered User
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:07 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Unread postby Mark » Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:18 pm

cowdery wrote:We can all speculate and weave theories, of course, but I don't expect that anyone who knows will actually tell us.


I know that Drew Kulsveen does frequent on here; Maybe he, if he would please be so kind, indugle us a bit on many of the older aged products origins, how they are selected etc... Anything that will indugle our inquiring minds! :lol: I absolutely love some of the more recent older aged ryes like the Classic Cask 21 and 22 yo ryes. I'll definitely look into a bottle of the 18yo BMH as well within the next few months when the wallet will allow it.
-=_Mark_=-
User avatar
Mark
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
 
Posts: 2269
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:11 pm
Location: SI, NY

Unread postby Oregone » Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:26 pm

:sad11: $65 at Binny's. Be a long time before that sounds good to me.
User avatar
Oregone
Registered User
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:07 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Unread postby Mark » Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:02 pm

I hear ya', it is a good bit of money but the classic cask 21 and 22 was a little bit shy of $60 but man, was it good. Bob and I actually put the 21yo a bit ahead of both Sazerac and VFRR when we did a 6 way rye shootout some months back.
-=_Mark_=-
User avatar
Mark
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
 
Posts: 2269
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:11 pm
Location: SI, NY

Unread postby Brewer » Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:10 pm

Mark wrote: Bob and I actually put the 21yo a bit ahead of both Sazerac and VFRR when we did a 6 way rye shootout some months back.


Yes, we sure did. And I'd like to add that we were both very suprised that the 21 YO Classic Cask didn't taste over-aged. In fact, we both thought that it had the potential to go possibly up to 25 years old.

I'm not as familiar with the Black Maple Hills bottlings. I've heard good things about them, but they're a bit pricier than the Classic Cask products. But, if worthy, I will probably have to grab one at some point when the finances allow it.
Bob
User avatar
Brewer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1481
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:44 am
Location: LI, NY

Unread postby OneCubeOnly » Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:25 pm

I've got to second Mark's endorsement of the Classic Cask 21yo...Wade was kind enough to share some at the Festival, and it was indeed spectacular.

I've never had the BMH, and probably won't take the plunge unless somebody else sings its praises. With VWFRR being such a bargain, I think I have the whole rye category satisfied.
User avatar
OneCubeOnly
Registered User
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 8:12 pm
Location: Virginia

Unread postby tlsmothers » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:38 am

I'm a big fan of the Classic Cask 22 and had the pleasure of tasting many ryes side by side at Mark's one night. This really is a standout.

I have a funny bit of retailer honesty to share with you. Some new NY luxury mag called Absolute is coming out with an article on rye Manhattans. They got all interested in the BMH18. Now I'm already cringing at the thought of mixing Pappy 20 and coke but the thought of an expensive rye in a Manhattan? Oh, well, it is NY where the thought of a "luxury" cocktail gets some folks all tingly with excitement. Anyway, back to my funny. The mag really wanted a bottle for a photo op. I offered to loan them a bottle if I was present. I only had one bottle left and didn't want to just "loan" it out unsupervised. They finally decided to buy the bottle. I've had it priced at $95 and have had no problem selling it. I went back and pulled an invoice and realized I had made a mistake and marked it up way above my norm. I'm out of it at the moment so here's my quandry: Do I continue selling it at this outrageous price (unless it's to one of y'all)? Or do I play nice and mark it down to my normal markup of around $75?
"Drinking just to get drunk is like having sex just to get pregnant." --Robert Hess
User avatar
tlsmothers
Registered User
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:31 pm
Location: New York City

Unread postby TNbourbon » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:02 pm

tlsmothers wrote: Do I continue selling it at this outrageous price (unless it's to one of y'all)? Or do I play nice and mark it down to my normal markup of around $75?


LeNell, that's an easy one. You leave it on your shelf at the $95 price. You sell it to any of us for $75.
TNbourbon
Registered User
 
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:11 pm


Return to Non-Bourbon Whiskey

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests